We Should All Be Shooting Dorky AF SLRs and Here’s Why

We Should All Be Shooting Dorky AF SLRs and Here’s Why

2560 1440 James Tocchio

Hey, camera-likers. Let me share another opinion you probably won’t find in the echo chambers of Film Photography Youtube and Reddit – that the best film cameras are the last film cameras – unpopular, ugly and boring autofocus SLR film cameras that were made between 1995 and the early 2000s.

I feel like the facts make this an obvious conclusion. But this can’t be so, because I don’t see these film cameras being promoted nearly as often as I see under-performing ancient (but beautiful) cameras being promoted. Why aren’t these dirt cheap and exceptionally powerful cameras the most popular cameras on the internet? Why aren’t my social media newsfeeds flooded with Maxxum 5s and Nikon N80s and Canon EOS Rebels? Why do people keep repeating that the Leica M3, an expensive, primitive camera from 1954, is the best film camera ever made?

These are all rhetorical questions to which I know the answers. It’s because we get nearly all of our information from the internet and the internet is an echo chamber. Whatever’s popular will remain popular, and whatever isn’t never can be. And often, it seems, there’s no good reason for anything to be popular or not, except that someone who’s good at marketing their voice as an influencer has decreed it so.

Film photography YouTubers will tell you that the best film camera ever made is the over-priced and over-hyped Contax T3, or the too-specialized Hasselblad X Pan, or the enormous, expensive, and impractical Mamiya 7. But they’re all just echoing each other’s shouts, and the original shout may be questionably informed to begin with. Case in point, I was recently scrolling through a Facebook group for camera collectors when I saw a YouTuber / Professional Camera Liker comment within the group. He asked “Can anyone tell me if [camera X] is good? I’ve never used one and I’m shooting a review of it tonight.”

Really? This is how we photo geeks are getting our information and advice about photo stuff in 2020? From someone who’s never shot the camera that he’s reviewing? This does not establish confidence.

Some people reading this will already be twitching their fingers, ready to drop the digital gloves in defense of their favorite YouTube personality. If that’s you, chill, my bud! I’m not trying to make anyone mad. I love YouTube camera dorks and there are plenty of sincere YouTubers who add to the knowledge base and (more importantly) help people improve and get greater enjoyment from their photography.

And I also know that there’s not supposed to be such a thing as a “best camera.” Cameras are tools and different people need different tools. But generally speaking (that means for a vast majority of users), there really is a best film camera. But it’s not just one camera. It’s an entire class of cameras. Which is great news!

The Background Part – Up and Up and Up

The historical trajectory of the film camera is easily trackable. Film cameras got better and better, until they were superseded by digital cameras. The industry never dipped or dived for a decade, as other industries have at times. Film camera capability and ergonomics simply went up, and up, and up, decade after decade, until they were no longer being actively developed.

The first cameras were primitive light-tight boxes made to suspend a lens a certain distance away from a focal plane of film. These simple boxes of cardboard or wood quickly evolved into beautiful assemblies of shiny metal. Over the next fifty years, cameras became smaller, incrementally more automated, more reliable, and easier to use. By the mid-1950s, cameras still required a dedicated user who knew what he or she was doing in order to make a proper image, but the cameras of the 1950s were overall very good cameras. Limited in spec, but good. Now, if we jump forward fifty years from then, there’s really no comparison. Film cameras made between 1995 and 2004 are objectively the best film cameras in the world, and I want more people to buy them now while they can be bought for, like, $60.

I feel like it’s important for me to make my argument in the simplest and most compelling way possible. But instead of doing that, here are a bunch of strange metaphors and questionably relevant analyses (did you expect something else? wrong site, my pal).

For the purposes of the following argument, I’ve selected the Leica M3 as my fall guy, because it’s the classically accepted “perfect film camera.”  But the comparison will be as appropriate when substituting the Leica for something like the Nikon F3, Contax T2, or any other film camera du jour. That’s french, by the way, for film camera of the day.

For my “good guy” in the fight, I’ve selected a boring, inexpensive, passover camera from the year 2000 – the Minolta Maxxum 5. No one has ever lusted after this camera or any camera like it. It’s a devoid-of-style hunk of plastic. A flavorless yogurt of a photo taking device. It’s the Geo Metro of cameras (at least when it comes to external appearances).

But you can substitute in any late-1990s or early-2000s plastic AF SLR (Canon EOS Rebel Series, Nikon N Series, etc.) and the argument stands. Even if you get fancy and go with semi-pro models like the Minolta a7 or even a late model Contax SLR (the NX, for me), the argument still works. They’re cheaper or better, or cheaper and better, than any camera people are always telling us to buy. Let’s get to the reasoning behind such a bold statement.

Argument Part One – Spec Sheets Don’t Lie

If the Leica M3 is the Empire State Building, then the Minolta Maxxum 5 is that spaceship in Independence Day that blows everything up.

The Minolta Maxxum 5 (and all other mid-level AF SLRs from its era) has a specification sheet that would literally melt the brain of any hypothetical time-traveling camera designer who finished his career in 1955 and died one day later. He’d blink at the Maxxum’s spec sheet with bulging eyes and a sweaty lip, wonder how focus can be automatic, scream when he sees multiple metering modes, and puke when automatic exposure bracketing is explained to him. He’d probably instantaneously die if he heard the electronic automated burst mode of a Nikon F90 (4.3 FPS). And then his ghost would desperately wail that “the camera must cost $10,000!” More on cost later.

“James,” you might say to me if we were on a first name basis, “I don’t believe you. How can a dorky mid-level autofocus SLR from the 1990s or 2000s be so much better than the legendary Leica M3 or the Nikon F3, or the Mamiya 7, or whatever other stylish camera everyone’s currently screaming at me to buy?”

Let me convince you. Those cameras that everyone wants you to buy aren’t as good as they say they are. They’re heavy, lacking in light meters or auto-exposure modes, or bracketing, or exposure compensation, or multiple exposure modes, or spot-metering or matrix metering or auto anything. These popular camera can’t do one tenth of the things that mid-level cameras from the time between 1995 and 2004 can do. In fact, the only thing that a Leica M3 does better than a Maxxum 5 is look good. The Leica has timeless style. The Maxxum 5 looks like it belongs to a dad at Disneyland who’s wearing a fanny pack and speed-walking shoes for entirely practical reasons.

But looks don’t matter. Instead, look at this – I have gone ahead and made a demonstrative physical representation of each machine’s specs by meticulously listing the core specifications of both the Leica M3 and the Minolta Maxxum 5 in competing text documents. I have then increased the font size for dramatic effect, and printed the spec sheets onto standard 8 x 10 printer paper. I have used a fancy font for the M3, and a dorky font for the Minolta, which I think is appropriate. Here are the results. As you can see, the Minolta’s spec sheet is simply enormous at 268 words, while the Leica’s is embarrassingly small at just 56 words.

I have another illustrative point about specifications and capability – the user’s manual for the Leica M3 is 16 pages long. The manual for the Mamiya 7 is 32 pages long. The manual for the Nikon F3 is 46 pages long. But the user’s manual for the Minolta Maxxum 5 is 127 pages long.

And to preemptively counter the “Leica’s are all about the lenses” squad, here’s some truth. Every brand, by the 1990s, had mastered the creation of amazing lenses. Shooting any late model AF SLR will allow you to mount excellent glass of whatever focal length you want. The image quality is there. The AF is fast. The metering is perfect with multiple modes to suit your style. There’s exposure bracketing, and exposure compensation, and LED panels, and burst modes and everything just works. You’ll make better photos more easily and enjoy a higher hit rate.

Argument Part Two – The Banana Proposition (Your Money)

The Minolta Maxxum 5 (and its similarly specced cameras from the same era) isn’t just an amazing performer. It also costs nothing. This camera with its enormous user’s manual full of technical achievements and incredible functionality costs 1/6th the price of an F3, less than 1/20th the price of an M3, and 1/40th the price of a Mamiya 7. If you’re not sure what that means to your budget, let me illustrate.

In the United States of America, bananas cost approximately 69 cents per pound and it takes about three bananas to equal one pound. When bananas are shipped from one country to another or from a distributor to the local grocery store, they’re typically packed in boxes which are unsurprisingly called “banana boxes.” Each individual banana box measures approximately 20 x 16 x 10 inches (about 1.8 cubic feet) and each box can hold 35 pounds of bananas (which is about 105 bananas). Consequently each banana box full of bananas is worth approximately $24.15 in a retail environment.

The cargo bed volume of a 2020 Ford F-150 pickup truck with the 8 foot bed option is 77.4 cubic feet. We know that the volume of a standard banana box is 1.8 cubic feet, which means that the Ford F-150 with an 8 foot cargo bed can hold about 43 banana boxes containing somewhere around 4,515 bananas. The value of this truck bed full of bananas is thus approximately $1,038.

A Leica M3 with a basic lens costs about $1,200 on eBay today. Current eBay Buy it Now listings have the Minolta Maxxum 5 with a standard lens priced anywhere from $35 to $45. This, I should insert here, is absurd. For the same amount of money that you’d spend on a Leica M3 with a lens, you can buy a Minolta Maxxum 5 AND enough bananas to fill the bed of a Ford F-150. Or with your leftover cash you could buy 162 rolls of Kodak Tri-X (that’s 3.11 years worth of film if you shoot one roll of film per week).

And this amazing value proposition still stands when we compare any late-1990s/early-2000s AF SLR even against less expensive popular cameras, like the Nikon F3 or a Yashica T4. It’s just that you’ll be able to buy fewer bananas. The point is that these unpopular and dorky 35mm autofocus SLR cameras are an unbelievable value, the best value in photography today, in fact. And that’s independent of whether or not you like bananas.

The Consumer Advice Part – There Are Lots of Them

Rarity and limited supply has contributed, along with increased recognition for the value of old cameras of high quality, to a spike in the price of certain makes and models of film cameras in the modern era. Leicas have always been expensive, but hype has contributed drastically to an increased value in other models. I bought a Hasselblad X Pan two years ago for $1,200. YouTubers who’ve shot ten cameras lifetime discovered the X Pan sometime in 2018, and now we can’t buy one for under $2,400. I’m not mad. I just think it’s silly.

Of happy benefit to the rest of us, and to all the new film shooters who ask me every damned day “Which film camera should I buy?” there’s no shortage of 1990s/2000s AF SLRs. They’re everywhere. They’re $50. And they’re immeasurably better photographic tools than what people on YouTube and Reddit are recommending that you buy right now. So if you’re new to film photography (or you just want to take better pictures easier) go buy an ugly SLR made between the years 1995 and 2004, and thank me later.

The Part Where You Tell Me I’m an Idiot

That part is just below here, in the comments. Have fun.

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James Tocchio

James Tocchio is a writer and photographer, and the founder of Casual Photophile. He’s spent years researching, collecting, and shooting classic and collectible cameras. In addition to his work here, he’s also the founder of the online camera shop Fstopcameras.com.

All stories by:James Tocchio
164 comments
  • Pete February 6, 2020 at 4:46 pm

    If photography was just about spec sheets and taking the best possible photos, you’d be only shooting digital. Where’s the fun in that? As you know better than anyone, to many people, the process of taking the photo is as important as the photo.

    Reply
    • James Tocchio February 6, 2020 at 5:50 pm

      Well said, Pete. Think of this article as a counterargument to those who tell new film shooters they need to own a slow, heavy, hard-to-use camera from 40 years ago. I love those cameras, and eventually everyone should use one. But these $1,000 cameras being outmoded by $35 cameras is worth an article, I think.

      Reply
      • Michael Clark March 9, 2021 at 9:52 pm

        I loved this article. I would add that if you are lucky enough to be able to spend a little more then you can buy some incredible cameras that are far cheaper than a digital equivalent. My favourites Minolta a9 and Nikon f4-5. That being said I was after a canon ef50 lens and attached for the price of the lens was a canon 50e that has eye driven focus- that’s proper science fiction. I think it would be a great idea to buy a bunch of these af SLRs and give them to kids interested in photography to have a go at.

        Reply
    • Tom Schriefer January 13, 2021 at 10:21 am

      Not true, on two counts; 1.) (print) film is WAY more forgiving of exposure errors, and 2.) digital has never, not even once, as in never ever ever, made a better photographer out of anyone, anywhere. If I accidentally overexpose just about any film by 4-5 stops, I can make a usable print. If I do that with any digital camera, I’ve got the proverbial ‘polar bear in a blizzard’. I shoot Canon full-frame (5DII) and aps-c (80D) digital, with el-cheapo Canon glass from the ’90s, and top-of-the line modern Sigma Art lenses. Same lenses work just fine on my $20 Canon T2 35mm film camera. I can’t tell the difference in the results. Talent, vision, and lenses make photographs. The camera is now, always was, and always will be a box to hold the lens and the medium.
      FWIW, I agree with the author. There is essentially NO difference between my $20 T2, and my $350 EOS 3.

      Reply
  • Merlin Marquardt February 6, 2020 at 4:54 pm

    The truth hurts.

    Reply
  • Andrew in Austin, TX February 6, 2020 at 5:07 pm

    A provocative proposition to say the least – I have a Nikon N80/F80 by the way. –

    In defense of the old 35mm rangefinder cameras – before even placing an older, more archaic camera’s viewfinder up to my eye – I’m good with having to use just three menus to select a shutter speed – choose an aperture and then setting the focus distance with the aid of an old-school depth of field scale. I don’t do any of that with the N80 and as a result get a bit too complacent.

    Truth is there ain’t nothing like the feel of a plastic bodied, AF, zoom lens with front elements can be wiggled back and forth in relation to the lens barrel.

    Reply
  • Cody February 6, 2020 at 5:44 pm

    Really enjoyed this as someone “younger” and newish to the film world. Other than the fact that the youtube film community IS an echo chamber, do you think there’s any weight to people wanting to shoot with the same cameras as the masters did in their day (Leica being the obvious example)? or is it just a collect them all trend/fashion accessory kind of thing. I ask because while I will probably never be able to afford or choose to buy a Leica any year soon, I do enjoy the hands on simplicity and the tangibility of the cheaper mechanical cameras (I have about 6) I have acquired and although feature heavy, can’t see myself buying one of these better feature 90s SLRs just based on the aesthetics. The youtuber reviwing a camera they got the same day was too realistic. lol

    Keep up the great work and keep reviewing the affordable mechanical cameras, one of my new favorite blogs I have found!

    Reply
    • James Tocchio February 6, 2020 at 5:48 pm

      I’ll tell you, I love old cameras. I own a bunch of Leicaflex SLRs because I’m an SLR guy and I love Leicas. I also have Nikon rangefinders, TLRs, and plenty of other ancient machines that aren’t very advanced, technologically. Collecting them is fun, and shooting them is fun. But I know that they’re not easy to use and that I’d probably make more better photos with a Minolta from 1999. And they’re not easy to afford.

      The takeaway from this article should be that if you’re new to shooting film, don’t get all hung up on shooting what YouTubers tell you to shoot, and don’t stress out that you don’t have a glimmering, metal camera from 1954. Looking the part isn’t important. Getting the good photograph is important.

      So basically this article is here just to say, “Hey everyone. You can make great photos with a $35 plastic SLR. And in fact, for most shooters, you’ll be able to make better photographs easier with this camera than something like a full manual Leica rangefinder that costs over $1,000.”

      Reply
      • Roger Hakeman June 14, 2022 at 2:22 pm

        Ok, James… I’m late to the party by two years here, but I’ll take your premise on with a little different perspective. I’ve been a commercial photographer since 1971 and those antique tools you mentioned here: the Leicas, Hasselblads, Mamiya C330s and even Speed Graphics and view cameras were the currency in trade of the day well into the 1970s.

        Your assertion here has a kernal of veracity, but merely a kernal. The auto-everything bodies from ’95 to ’04 were awesome snapshot cameras. With that I have no argument. If “perfect” exposure and focus are the measures of a “perfect” image then ok, I’m on board. But if photography is about creativity, pushing limits, and knowing the “rules” inside and out so they can be broken for originality, then your premise doesn’t hold up so well any longer.

        A photographer needs to understand both the physics of light, optics, their effects on light sensitive media, and the chemistry of film and processing. That extends to how the exposure triangle is applied, how aperture in a specific focal length affects depth of field, and why, then, point of focus is so very important. Those modern cameras (and in fact, modern digital cameras) deprive the budding photographer of the need to understand all of those concepts, and in fact make it difficult to override the programming to apply that knowledge in the manner a photographer may want to use the camera.

        And while it’s true that the Leicaflex/Nikon F/Canon F1 triumverate are clunky by Y2K automation standards, a practitioner of the science of photography can manipulate them effortlessly to produce the photo he (or she) chooses to produce. The Y2K cameras’ automation stands in the way, and the photographer has to figure out how to override the functions of the camera to make the camera do his bidding; often not a simple undertaking in many of those bodies.

        So, it boils down then to whether you believe that a “photographer” uses automation and makes images according to what some programmer says is “perfect” exposure and focus, or whether a “photographer” is in complete control of all aspects of image-making.

        Reply
        • Tim Federwitz July 28, 2023 at 9:36 pm

          Here, here, Roger! I think I agree with all that you said. It’s certainly *not* the gear that has anything to do with “great” photos. It’s the artist marrying the exposure triangle with unique and interesting focus/DoF and composition.

          I actually wrote a really interesting (to me anyway) blog article and pushed for the exposure “pyramid” instead of triangle. The exposure triangle simply gives a *well-developed* picture on the media (film or digital).But that doesn’t mean it’s a “good” picture. My suggestion was to have a 2D drawing of a pyramid from the angle of one corner. It’s really more like two triangles butted up against each other with their points away from each other. In the traditional exposure triangle you have time (shutter speed) on the left. The amount-of-light (Aperture) at the top. And light-sensitivity (ISO) on the right. In my “pyramid,” the middle line comes down from ISO and that line is labeled “composition,” since it sits inside the whole thing, and at the bottom of that line I added “focus,” since all three are so intertwined in importance. *I may bring that blog back from the dead now that I am getting back into photography and will be shooting film.

          My point with the “pyramid” analogy was, (almost) any idiot can get a properly exposed photo with a light meter… but only an artist will figure out how to shoot a subject in a way that makes it super impactful.

          Yes, more automated cameras can be used for these purposes (maybe like Aperture priority mode, or shutter if you need to create motion or freeze it), but even with my Canon 1Dx MkII I was nearly *always* in manual mode.

          I like this article for new folks cutting their teeth. I used digital to figure out the art of photography without wasting a *ton* of money on film. Digital shots cost nothing, so less anxiety about learning through error. No camera will make you a good/great photographer. Just make sure what *ever* camera you choose can go FULL manual so you can learn it for yourself. Only then should you lean on automation.

          For digital now, I mostly shoot Fujifilm X series. My reason is lighter kit all around (APS-C instead of full frame) with some amazing fast lenses and choice, but mostly because it has all of the manual controls as dials on top of the camera! It feels *very* analog to me. And now I’m getting back to film for the slowness and finite nature of each shot. It’s no longer stressful for me since I now understand (for the most part) how to make a good photo. Film just feels more permanent to me after spraying-and-praying with digital and then deleting hundreds (thousands) of pictures.

          Reply
    • Josh Solomon February 7, 2020 at 1:15 am

      Thought i’d chime in, as i’m a young(er) person and got into film photography at the target age for these hype-based YouTube channels. I personally viewed old Leicas and old Rolleiflexes as aspirational cameras growing up, and a part of that did come from a desire to shoot the cameras the greats shot. I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with that, nor is there a problem with having a preference for simple, albeit more limited, cameras.

      The problem arises when we expect these hyped-up cameras to deliver Good Images or that they’ll somehow make us better (and better looking) photographers. No Leica M3, Pentax 67, or Mamiya 7 can improve your photography more than dedicated study of the craft, and i’d venture to say that none of those cameras are as valuable or fulfilling as a truly meaningful photo.

      Reply
      • Robert C February 10, 2020 at 3:25 pm

        I remember drawing an m3 in elementary school. its one of those cameras I have always wanted. I think somehow seeing photos of war correspondents in Vietnam using m2,m3s and nikon F cameras spurred me to get one. Not to mention these cameras could have captured some very important events in history. I think that aspect is soo cool.

        Reply
  • J.R. Taylor February 6, 2020 at 5:45 pm

    Wow. I couldn’t agree more. I just got back into film recently after a 40 yr hiatus. I’ve shot digital but completely out of film. But wanting to return to shooting film I started buying some old Minoltas. I love them, including an x700 and a Maxxum 7000, but my latest was the a7 and even though I still love my x700 notalgically there is no comparison. The a7 is a masterfully built shooting machine. It’s bells and whistles even outdo my digital.
    Loved your article!

    Reply
  • Castelli Daniel February 6, 2020 at 5:45 pm

    For years I worked with a Nikon 6006 – a small, highly accurate AF SLR. My other camera was a Nikon F100; another fantastic camera. I eventually switched back to (film) Leicas in 2001. I can’t afford anything with the Leica name these days. I’m keeping everything I own in good working order b/cause I’ll never be able to replace them.
    Your posting is a nice reminder that there are plenty of good cameras to be had.

    Reply
  • rfcn2 February 6, 2020 at 6:31 pm

    Amen. By far my easiest to use film camera is my Minolta 600si that is an absolutely fantastic camera with full AF, auto loading, auto rewind, matrix teetering, built in flash and so on. I had a second one that I sold with a nice little 30-70 zoom just before Christmas last year and I could only get $35 bucks for it. I have bought (and sold) several just great lenses for this camera, like the Minolta 100mm f2.8 macro. I still have a 24mm, 50mm, and 70-210mm that all work great and would sell for almost nothing. If you buy a Leica M3 the cost to get the likely needed CLA will be more than a full kit of a good running Minolta.

    Reply
    • Ed Green May 7, 2020 at 3:26 pm

      What’s “sell for almost nothing” on those lenses?

      Reply
      • rfcn2 May 7, 2020 at 11:47 pm

        Ed I am not selling any of those lenses I mentioned. I had a change of heart about a week ago and bought two 600si bodies on eBay. One slightly less than what I sold mine on eBay for. And the second body has an extra grip that is also a battery holder. I already have the two cameras and they are near mint. The one with the battery holder is great with heavier tele lenses. I also bought a couple of lenses that I liked before. What turned me around was several rolls of film that I shot of spring flowers. I have a large yard and big spring bloom. I shot lots of digital photos with my Nikon Z7 and Z50. But then I had several rolls of spring photo flower shots on Portra 160 and Ektachrome and once again realized that many times color is just better on film than digital. My digital shots are pin point sharp but the colors from film are just better.

        Reply
    • Valeria UA February 5, 2022 at 2:08 am

      I got a Minolta lens at a thrift store for $14, and another one that came with a Minolta Maxxum STSi for I think $35, also at a thrift store. I got them for my DSLR Sony camera XD, cheaper than Canon or Nikon and good enough for a hobbyist. One of them I have to focus manually, because the autofocus broke but overall they are fun. Personally, the appeal of the older models is the simplicity. However, its also a matter of personal style, preference, goals and usage. Meaning if you just want to play around with a piece of history, for the user sometimes is about the experience more than the end result.

      Reply
  • Christopher James February 6, 2020 at 6:32 pm

    This is a GREAT article thank you! I own a bunch of cheap vintage cameras and I love them (Minolta Super, Box Brownies etc) but if I want to really make sure I get the images I always reach for my Canon EOS 300 with a nifty 50 or (gasp!) kit lens zoom. It’s plastic, easy to use and completely brilliant. I recently bought three more to give away – cost me less than USD$150 including lenses. This is a great reminder for all of us.

    Reply
  • Rob B. February 6, 2020 at 6:45 pm

    My Maxxum 5 was a $12 thrift store find. I put on the plastic fantastic 35-70mm and went for a nature walk one day. Scanned my negatives and let some very choice expletives fly.

    This cheap little pile of plastic was giving me images that rivaled anything I was shooting on Digital. My Maxxum 7/28-85mm/Superia 400 combination even blew that away.

    I often joke about people that spend more time taking pictures of their Leicas than with their Leicas. It really is more of a status symbol it would seem. Yes, the glass is amazing, but so are the small stable of Zeiss lenses I shoot on my Contax and Yashica bodies, all of which I picked up very cheaply relative to a summicron or summilux.

    I’ve really been tempted to pull the trigger on a Leica R4, but after playing with one at one of my local camera stores, I left feeling like it really felt very much like my XD11 which is an amazing camera, especially paired with the MD 50mm f1.4.

    All this to say that yes, you are 100% correct that there are cheaper, better cameras to be had – if the pictures mean more to you than the hype.

    Reply
  • Jim Grey February 6, 2020 at 7:21 pm

    I agree fully! I tell people all the time, if you want to break into film photography, or if you just want to have a great time shooting film, by a Nikon N65 or any Nikon SLR that looks similar. Be sure to get a standard zoom lens with it, and when you shoot just put it in P. You will get back 24 or 36 perfectly exposed images with no trouble at all. Let that whet your appetite for more!

    Reply
    • Mike February 6, 2020 at 10:50 pm

      The well respected Jim Grey has spoken!!

      I also agree with Jim and James (must be a thing). Any time one of my friends or people who find out I shoot film ask for a great starter film camera I ask first “what digital do you shoot?” If it’s Canon then I point them to the EOS rebels (and watch them put their $1000 24-70 2.8L lenses on a $15 body) or for Nikon the N65 or N90 depending on their lenses. Even the amazing F100 which is about the top of film SLRs can be had for about $100 if you know where to look!

      Sure the Leica’s and Mamiya 7s can be aspirational cameras, but they really won’t help you take better pictures. They will probably just really punish you when you get it wrong.

      When I want a sloooow photography process I head out the door with my F3. When I just want to take pictures and burn through some film, the F100 is my first choice.

      Thanks for another great article James and saying the things that need to be said.

      Reply
  • digitalintrigue February 6, 2020 at 8:06 pm

    This is very timely! I’ve recently ‘discovered’ these recent film cameras, after paying them no mind for many years. They are extremely capable and very cheap! There are a few things to look out for, like the ‘sticky back’ problem that arises with many of the Nikons, but it’s not hard to find copies of models from this era that have had very easy lives, practically unused…and as a bonus, many of the lenses are superb and equally cheap!

    Sure, the old stuff made of chrome plated brass is wonderful to handle, to admire, and to use, but the more recent stuff has AF, faster shutter speeds, is lighter, more ergonomic, and offer many other features that make them a breeze to shoot.

    A lot of times the older gear just gets in the way…and ultimately it’s about getting the shot, right?

    Reply
  • Jason February 6, 2020 at 10:14 pm

    My girlfriend takes roll after roll of perfect photos with a Pentax Espio 140V that I got her for $10, and here I am struggling to get 2 or 3 good shots per roll out of my Nikons and Mamiya 645.

    Reply
    • Ted Miller November 26, 2020 at 10:34 am

      That’s Pentax quality for you. One of the most under-rated brands ever.

      Reply
      • Tom Schriefer January 13, 2021 at 10:26 am

        I don’t know about ‘under-rated’. But I am completely amazed at the difference between scan and prints from my 645N/35A and anything I can do with Canon, digital or 35mm. MF film is my default landscape medium.

        Reply
        • Matthew Brown May 20, 2021 at 5:52 am

          AF-era Pentax 35mm cameras don’t get enough love, for sure. This doesn’t apply to MF Pentaxes, or the classic manual focus 35mm bodies, but the SF1/SF1n, [P]Z-1[-p], etc bodies lack for little except obscurity.

          Reply
          • msclark65 August 23, 2021 at 7:18 pm

            I agree. For a smaller fully functional camera these are great. I like the way pentax switches to aperture priority not program shift just by turning the dial. Z-1p is a great nuggety camera.

  • Francis.R. February 6, 2020 at 10:34 pm

    It is a good article with sound advise. Is easier to get batteries with modern film cameras, is easy and cheaper to get high quality lenses that work in Nikon and Canon bodies. One has not to worry about light seals; there are infinity of accessories as flashes, filters, the exposures are determined with computerized data of thousands references, the autofocus is modern and reliable, and they maybe are plastic but it is high quality plastic.

    A poet and photographer has a digital Nikon and a beautiful Tamron 90mm f2.8, I helped her to get a Nikon F80d, which is the N80 but with exif data imprint, (it was an offer from an olx seller in her same Eastern European country, otherwise I had suggested to purchase it in the store here but was not in stock) In my case I had a metallic Canon EF (FD mount, the black beauty) it was so heavy that I could only take that camera with me and nothing else. Time after it was taken away from me I got on Black Friday a Canon EOS 7 (Elan 7e in the U.S., with focus driven by the movement of the retine :O) and a cheap yongnuo 50mm f1.8 lens. It is like science fiction, it is more advanced than any digital camera I ever had. And in comparison to the Canon EF camera the aspect was uninspiring, as if a newspaper would sending you to cover a boring conference, but the photos are perfect and, if you close the eyes, actually it feels like a glove to the hand. My only issue in my far away country is to get a quality way to scan the negatives.

    Reply
  • Don Urban February 6, 2020 at 10:54 pm

    This is sure to ruffle a few feathers! Great article James. (are we on first name terms?)

    Reply
  • Joe shoots resurrected cameras February 7, 2020 at 12:40 am

    Something tells me you have a ton of these plastic automatic monstrosities and are trying to hype them up to get rid of them. You’re obviously cracked. That said I do agree that they make useful cameras for beginners, I did a lot of early work on cameras like the Pentax A3000; I’ve shot newer autofocus, program manual focus, point & shoot, fully manual, and if there’s anything I’ve left out I’m sure I’ve shot that too at some point. You’ll never convince me the fully automatic cameras are better because the further that camera design progressed, the more cameras were designed to do the thinking for people, hence the abominably low intelligence of the average photographer today. That said, if you can convince Kendall Jenner to take a Maxxum 5 the next time she’s on a talk show then more power to you, that might distract the idiots away from driving up the price of worthier cameras. The trick is to figure out what trend the sheeple will buy into next and snatch up everything you can find while it’s cheap enough to make a nice profit.

    Reply
    • Josh Solomon February 7, 2020 at 1:27 am

      If there’s anything more abominable than Instagram influencers in this community, it’s the elitists and gatekeepers.

      Reply
      • Jeb Inge February 7, 2020 at 2:51 am

        hashtag amen.

        Reply
      • WilliamB February 8, 2020 at 12:35 pm

        Harsh! But yeah, he is wrong. I’ve used all kinds of cameras in my time, but I consistently get good shots from my later Nikon’s. When I say good, I mean, ‘in focus’, because I’m actually just an amateur and a little bit crap. My shots are not technically great, unless I make an error or something, lol.

        Reply
      • Valeria UA February 5, 2022 at 2:17 am

        😂 I have to agree. Let people enjoy what they enjoy, as long as they are not hurting anyone.
        Not everyone is interesting in the technicalities of “good photos”. Some like me have veeeery shaky hands 🙈, and some simply like color and trying new things. For most people for the majority of history, being able to access portraiture of any kind was out of reach, and yet most have an impulse to leave a trace of your existence. So, if you don’t like the work from those who are not well versed in focal lengths and aperture, then simply look for other content. At the end of the day, people do have a choice and access to the kind of content they want in the Era of Information that we are living in.

        Reply
    • digitalintrigue February 7, 2020 at 9:57 am

      geeze. yes, James has loads of $20 cameras, this blog post is all about the sawbucks he’s going to rake in. lol

      Reply
  • Michael Paz February 7, 2020 at 12:40 am

    I have Minolta XD-11 and a Nikon N80. I love my XD-11, it’s sleek, sexy, and easy to use but when I get the film itch (I primarily shot digital) I’m usually reaching for the N80. I have a A7RIII and a D800 and because the N80 is a modern SLR the shooting experience is very similar to my digital cameras, especially the D800. With it’s speed, rock solid AF, and metering deliver it make capturing great images much easier. It’s actually my second N80. I had one before but sold it when I switch over to Canon for a bit (at which time I used a Elan 7n which is also fantastic). I picked my current up recently so I could use it with the glass I have for my D800.

    Reply
  • Geof A. February 7, 2020 at 1:11 am

    While I agree with you about the over-value of some cameras like Leicas, I disagree completely on the whole AF camera thing. I have several AF cameras, and have found that my pictures are worse with those. It’s not a problem with image quality, but a problem with automation. Automation takes choices out of my hands, and makes me shoot in cruise control. This result is a much lower keeper rate, and a lot of wasted film. The article also created a false dichotomy—super expensive all manual camera, or super cheap automated wonder. Me, I’d far rather shoot my $15 Nikkormat FTn than either of those cameras, and it’s cheaper, with cheaper lenses (stick with the pre-AI and you can get amazing quality glass for half the price of AF era glass and 1/10th the price of Leica glass.

    Reply
  • Dawid February 7, 2020 at 3:35 am

    So Minolta Maxim is the best camera? ;-P

    Reply
  • Carlos February 7, 2020 at 3:37 am

    Well,… I am using a Canon EOS 650 I bought for 20 euro, and I can use all lenses from my Canon EOS 5D Mk II. And it is an historical camera. The first one in the EOS series. And it is a lot of fun to use. So… I agree… but I like my Leica M2 too.

    Reply
    • Tom Schriefer January 13, 2021 at 10:29 am

      Agreed! I picked up an EOS 650 on E-Bay for $20. It does just as well with a Sigma 24-70mm f/2.8 Art lens as my 5DII, and it is way more fun to shoot.

      Reply
  • Martin February 7, 2020 at 4:28 am

    If I want fully auto then I use my Nikon digital slr D4S…..it surely gets the job done 100%. I have shot film since the late 60’s when I was a kid. I love film and for me part of the pleasure is in setting up the camera to get the shot I want manually. As well as 35mm, I also shoot medium format. I once owned F4’s and the like when they were the realm of pro photographers….and there is no doubt that like the F80 etc etc they do a great job…..but they do it automatically. Personally I take far more pleasure in setting up a film camera manually, making all the adjustments depending on result I require and then seeing those results. Far far more satifying than any glorified point and shoot. My only concession is the use of “Aperture Priority” on my RTS ii. With my Nikon F2 all is manual and it feels so so good. With a fully auto machine you learn nothing….the computer does it all. Sure the result is almost guarentted 100%….but like I said, if that is what I want then I will go digital.

    Reply
  • Clive W February 7, 2020 at 4:45 am

    Right and wrong, Mr Tocchio. Or, in other words, a nice discussion piece.

    Given the convenience, excellence and affordability of modern digital cameras, you have to have a romantic (or masochistic) streak to want to shoot film at all. I have one of those unloved plastic SLRs in a drawer, a Pentax MZ-5n that I bought new in 2001. It still works as well as it ever did, which was as well as I ever needed. (I was a new parent at the time and autofocus was what I bought it for.)  But today I have limited time for taking pictures and I’m already torn between the excellence and immediacy of my Fuji digitals and the tactile pleasure and ooh-what’s-that? appeal of the ME Super I’ve had since 1984 — or of the Nikon FE I wanted then and bought in 2019 when I could at last afford one. This leaves a gap for the AF film cameras to fall into.

    But if all I had was the MZ-5n, I wouldn’t be missing out. It may not have the outward appeal of a classic film camera but it’s a superbly designed machine and very easy to use well – which doesn’t necessarily mean auto-everything. I’d go further and agree with Mr T: purely in terms of results on film, cameras of this period are probably the best of them all. Since mine wouldn’t fetch enough to be worth the bother of selling, I will give it an outing some time.  Soon.

    Reply
  • brian nicholls February 7, 2020 at 6:56 am

    Dear Mr Tocchio,
    Excellent article. I bought a ‘Gorky’ Nikon F60 around 2001 which, I guess is the same as your Minolta. I chose the F60 because a) I needed an slr, b) It was on special offer c) there was £50 cash back from Nikon and, critically it had a dioptre adjustment which stood it out amongst the dealer’s stock. It could have been any brand. The problem now,as it was then is BRAND BLINDNESS!! This phenomenon exists also with watches and cars (to mention just two). Cameras (and watches) particularly are part and parcel of male jewellery rather than functionality or value for money. If I told someone that their revered new Omega quartz had a Swatch movement they would look at me in disbelief but, Swatch owns Omega and ETA Hologere who make the movements for both. It’s the photographer that MAKES the picture – not the camere. My F60 is good to this day and is all (and then some) as described in your thought provoking article. Well said and Well done!!

    Reply
    • James Tocchio February 7, 2020 at 7:06 am

      I’m literally laughing at “Mr. Tocchio.” You can all call me James. And I agree with your watch analysis. I bought a Tudor.

      Reply
  • Giulio February 7, 2020 at 8:34 am

    This is an amazing and clever article but I think something is missing here: what about lenses? I own a Nikon and a Minolta (both old heavy slrs but that’s not the point) I love shooting with the Minolta but It has not even a fifth of the lenses available in the Nikon f range. Same goes for the leica rangefinders, You’re buying the possibility to use that amazing glass.

    Reply
    • James Tocchio February 7, 2020 at 10:30 am

      I respect your comment but I have to contest the claim that Minolta doesn’t have a complete selection of available lenses in the A mount. They had every focal length covered in primes of various aperture values, from 16mm up to 600mm, countless zoom lenses, APO lenses, ultrasonic motor lenses, the only STF lens ever made, G lenses, D lenses, hi-speed lenses and lenses with motorized zooms. If Minolta was ever anything, they were masterful lens-makers (they were one of the only Japanese companies to own and operate their own glass factory specifically for the purposes of making photographic lens elements).

      That’s the end of my argument, with much respect. Here’s a link to a list of their A mount lenses (this list is incomplete) – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Minolta_A-mount_lenses

      Reply
  • Peter Caulfield February 7, 2020 at 10:18 am

    I have been using cameras since I was 12 years old and am now 70, and have used mostly 35mm. I collect cameras and what you say is very true, the AF cameras from the 1990s to the early 2000s are great. I was against AF and plastic body’s and would only use old metal bodied manual cameras, but since I have picked up a few really cheap later AF cameras from Minolta, Canon, Nikon and Pentax I actually really enjoy using them. They have full information viewfinders and top plate LCD screens that make life so much easier and as you say the lenses are very good too. A very enjoyable read.

    Reply
  • Noah February 7, 2020 at 10:46 am

    I buy Minolta maxxum 5’s semi-often from goodwill, usually at about $10 each. I bring batteries with me for testing, the batteries cost more than the camera! I end up giving them away, but I always keep one and shoot with it regularly, often in situations where I would not be comfortable bringing an expensive camera. I think most of the maxxum cameras are ugly as you say, but I actually like the looks of the 5, the 7 and the 9! These cameras are great and exist in huge numbers and each one deserves a home!

    Thanks for the great article!

    Reply
  • Peter February 7, 2020 at 12:04 pm

    A coworker mentioned to me that she wanted to get into photography and wanted to shoot film instead of digital. Another coworker did the same and purchased a Pentax K1000 and was happy so I assumed that this other person wanted to do the same. I gave her a Nikon FE2 that someone was throwing away along with a 50mm f/1.4 lens. I had to show her how to use the camera only to find that she didn’t understand the concept of focusing the lens. DOH! Should have given her an N65 that I have collecting dust in my drawer. I might offer to exchange her for it so I’ll have a second black FE2 in my collection.

    Reply
    • Peter February 8, 2020 at 10:23 am

      As a counterpoint to your post, here’s something to consider: why use a newer AF auto-everything film camera that does everything that a modern digital camera does when you can experience photography from an earlier era? Last night I had this strange urge to fondle my Nikkormat FTN. I was changing lenses, resetting the aperture indexing system, turning the shutter speed ring, checking if the meter was working, etc. I then put it down and picked up my FE2 and went through the shutter speeds and the apertures. I then looked at my N8008s and F4 and just couldn’t come to pick them up to fondle them. There’s a satisfaction that comes with the mechanical nature of older cameras. The precision, the mechanical satisfaction of working the controls, the heft. The plastic fantastic cameras that came just before the digital era just don’t compare. Even the Fujifilm X-T1, X-T2, and X-T3 Just don’t give the same satisfaction that the older mechanical film cameras did.

      Reply
  • Kip Roof February 7, 2020 at 1:17 pm

    Everyone seems to be forgetting that most of these fully automatic SLR’s can be used completely manually including focus and exposure settings. So — best of both worlds. High quality, inexpensive automatic camera with huge lens selections and the ability to shoot completely manual if ya like. It seems like a win-win to me. Having photographed weddings for nearly 30 years starting with a Rollei TLR, I can say I much prefer those more modern SLR cameras. I also still own a rangefinder, a point-and-shoot and 2 view cameras. All of which I use for certain things. But My Canon Elan 7 which I bought new when shooting weddings is still the best camera for me for most situations. As a side note; having processed and scanned many rolls of film for a lot of the young people trying out film, I can say that image quality isn’t their greatest concern. They’re mostly looking for a somewhat romanticized version of what film looks like. Things we used to call mistakes and would have gotten me sued if I had delivered those images to a client. So I think that in that case, maybe a camera that allows you to get excellent images quickly and efficiently isn’t really the best choice. I agree that costs have gotten out of hand, but that’s also partly due to greater scarcity of working examples of older cameras. Especially since the only way to have some of those older cameras working is to have a couple of spares for parts

    Reply
  • Huss February 7, 2020 at 2:42 pm

    James, I think you are missing the big picture here.

    When I take a blurry poorly exposed pic with my Leica M3 and Summicron 50 DR I have created ART.
    When I take a blurry poorly exposed pic with my $20 Nikon N75 – well that hasn’t happened yet cuz it nails focus and exposure – but if I did, that would be cr@p.

    Best regards
    Huss

    Reply
  • Brian Hellauer February 7, 2020 at 3:17 pm

    Great article and comments – mostly 😉 Read this after picking up a Nikon 8008s and a cheap 28mm P&S for a super low price. Serendipity…

    Reply
    • Walther Ziemerink February 21, 2021 at 11:57 am

      How nice is that N8008s right? A automatic F3…just better, same HP viewfinder, faster and it can take a beating like theres no tomorrow. I use it more than any of my other film cameras.

      Reply
    • Walther Ziemerink February 21, 2021 at 12:02 pm

      Completely agree. Whilst i like my FM2n and Konica T3, I use my N8008 majority of the time.

      Reply
  • jopho February 7, 2020 at 4:13 pm

    Kismet? Karma? Just a funny coincidence? Your post came out on the very day that I bought three of these cameras at an estate sale for $5 each. Still not sure if they all work, but they power up, so that’s a good sign. And for someone like me, who is getting back into film after a 20 year absence, and who always used point and shoot cameras back in the day, I think they will be just perfect. I look forward to taking (hopefully) great automatic shots, and then switching into manual to learn more.

    Oh, and I bought some bananas yesterday too. 😉

    Thanks for the extra encouragement! Perfect timing!

    Reply
  • Paul February 7, 2020 at 4:23 pm

    personally I like this argument, and I think its time that someone stepped up and said it aloud. Thank you for writing this James. I would put this perspective in the same category of those who say “the canon ae1 is the best beginner camera” simply because it is something they have heard before. The echo-chamber is alive and well. That one point you brought up about the YouTuber’s post in the Facebook group is pretty awakening. Without questioning what we have become to accept as the norm, we can only expect to continue moving in a circle. Thank you for breaking that trend and exposing what lies on the outside of that boundary.

    Reply
  • brettbashore February 7, 2020 at 6:28 pm

    I am so darn excited for film, it’s crazy. A few years ago I scored an amazing deal on a like new Nikon F4. My next purchase was the Nikon L35AF, followed by an Olympus Stylus. My G.A.S. continued, and I found a minty Nikon F100 followed by a series of Minolta’s (SRT-101, 102, 201)

    While I still enjoy shooting digitally and do so on a daily basis (it pays the bills) nothing will ever replace shooting film for me personally. I never aspired to ‘own a Leica’ or even shoot with one. I am sure they are great, I am sure there a certain, what the French call ‘I don’t know what,’ when you’re using one – but, it just never appealed to me to opt for $2,000 film camera.

    I so appreciate this article, because for under 500 dollars I was able to get cameras that when new would have been closer to 5k total (in 1970’s and 1980’s dollars even) and the quality, feel, fit and finish of each is something that just won’t be duplicated today (although Fujifilm comes close).

    Ranting aside, it’s not about what camera you have, which brand you like, or how it looks when you take it on the street. It is 100% always about what you do with it, how you use it, and how that finished result can impact your very own psyche and the world at large! Thanks again for the thoughts!

    Reply
  • Alyssa February 8, 2020 at 1:11 am

    I may be just the youtuber your looking for James 😉 check out my channel Aly’s Vintage Camera Alley. I like to review the cameras no one else seems to notice. I have a canon Rebel G coming up soon which was was my very first film camera as a kid. I agree with everything you said in this article. Great job.

    Reply
  • tbm3fan February 8, 2020 at 1:52 am

    While I have tons of manual cameras I see nothing really wrong with these cameras unless you have a certified allergy to plastic. I have the Nikon 2002, 4004, 6006, 8008, N80 and N90 all bought for $28 or less. Some with lenses and some without. I also have the Minolta Maxxum 7000, 9000, 600si, 700si, 800si, 5 and 70 all bought for less than $40 with lenses. The only one that cost real money was the Maxxum 7.Recently used the N80 and the Maxxum 7 to shoot a F-14 Tomcat, that I am able to get up close and personal with, for a story I am doing. Color sent out and the Acros developed by me. Their metering systems were spot on.

    Reply
  • tarkan February 8, 2020 at 7:54 am

    Great article, but surely there are some crappy cameras from that era. Any specific model to avoid maybe?

    Reply
    • digitalintrigue February 8, 2020 at 4:09 pm

      Most of these cameras were well-built, the plastic coverings are a facade for the most part, internally most are very-well built cameras. But the plastic can degrade on some, with the ‘sticky back’ syndrome. Might want to watch for that…

      Reply
  • Mike Hess February 8, 2020 at 9:34 am

    I agree with most of this except the lens part. By the 2000s, manufacturers had mastered the art of making cheap lenses that produced adequate results. I had a Pentax ZX5n and the kit lens sucked. The flip side is that it would take every lens they had ever made up until that point. I have m42 lenses I use now with my current digital setup and they are amazing.

    Relatively new AF consumer film cameras are great to get started in film. Not as nostalgic as old, manual cameras, but a cheap, solid platform to dip a toe into analog photography.

    Reply
  • Gene February 8, 2020 at 10:50 am

    I love this. I’ve been shooting with a Canon Elan IIe for a few years and it’s not sexy or even slightly retro but it takes the best pictures of any film camera I own. I bought it for $15 on shopgoodwill.com and then bought a new Canon 50mm EF 1.8 and that combo is just unbeatable. I usually shoot manual or aperture priority but sometimes just put it on full auto for family stuff with a TTL canon flash and it works flawlessly.

    Reply
    • Tony B May 22, 2021 at 2:17 pm

      You’re so right about this camera. I was given a mint one by a colleague at work who knew I shot film, he wanted nothing for it, it’s super camera, it’s hard to go wrong with it, and the eye focusing works really well. If I want to relax and concentrate on compositions or shoot quickly this is the camera I use. I was so impressed I bought another mint condition one for a paltry £20 as a spare, and the battery grip for another £15. It’s just a really nice camera to use and very comfortable to hold as well, I’d definitely recommend it as cheap but excellent option.

      Reply
  • Dan February 8, 2020 at 1:21 pm

    You’ve hit on something here in this article James, that me and a fellow film shooter chatted about last week. Namely the mindless, opinion-as-fact reviews, commentary, youtube clickbait and podcast ramblings out there in the film community.
    It gets quite annoying sometimes to see these people who know absolutely nothing, making all sorts of claims just to get hits/likes/whatever.All that disinformation isn’t helping anyone. Best ever x, better than a leica, I don’t like y.. without ever following up with a ‘why’ or ‘because..’

    Especially on podcasts this is very aggravating. I listen to quite a few and subscribed to another one recently that I’ve heard good things about. Well one of the hosts rags on stuff constantly, without ever explaining why. He just casually throws out ‘I hate stand development, bro’ like 7 times in the course of 3 episodes and clearly he 1) never stand developed before 2) has no idea why you’d want to stand develop something in the first place. What’s worse is, his co-hosts give zero pushback. None. And this is one small example, these guys have 90 minute shows where all they do is churn out lazy hyperbole.

    Reply
  • Eric February 8, 2020 at 4:33 pm

    The number of comments in a fews days demonstrate the quality and the interest of this article. I have a lot of cameras and 😉
    This article help to think well especially for a beginner. It is helpfull.
    Read one last review of Ken Rockwell about the Olympus 35 SP ….. 😉 I am agree one more time with him.
    So : it is right it is better to invest in a good basic lens, buy good film, process in a good lab ….. mine is great REWINDPHOTOLAB Sydney makes great job.
    Agree.
    I love my M3, but for the results, other cameras give me the same. I do no speak about the pleasure to have in the hand a very well made camera ….. but for nice images as we can see here, ….. you see how these cameras do the job very well for a few money.
    Thanks so much for this great article

    Reply
  • David February 8, 2020 at 6:28 pm

    Can I call you James? James, anyone who has read you for any amount of time can see right through this! When you had Leicas to sell, they were the greatest. They are too dear now? Load up on the cheap stuff, trash talk the Leicas, and everyone bins them. Buy low, sell high. And look at all the comments!
    Don’t sell your Leicas boys, they are still still zipping along, onward and upward. Meanwhile the plastic fantastic is crumbling and corroding.
    And James, you really should do an M3 review, and a checklist of Leica repairmen would be nice.

    Reply
    • James Tocchio February 8, 2020 at 9:49 pm

      Hey David, call me Jimbo if you like. I really hope that if you’ve read me for any amount of time you’ll know that I say what I think and don’t really give a damn what people are buying (from me or from anyone else). To your specific point – I hope you’re not genuinely suggesting that my writing is biased toward what I “have to sell,” but if I do indeed have to defend my editorial integrity here I can do so very easily. Here’s the facts:

      People want you to buy Leicas because they are a low volume high margin business. It’s a lot easier to clean, list, sell, and ship ten Leicas per month than it is to clean, list, sell and ship 100 cheap cameras per month for the same amount of bottom line revenue. So in fact, if I was truly self-serving with the articles I write, as you sort of hinted at, it would be in my best interest to tell EVERYONE to buy Leicas ONLY and trash talk any and all cameras that don’t cost $800-2,000. And hey, isn’t that sort of what everyone else is doing? Interesting. Have you thought of that?

      This site has a very long history of telling people to be smart with their money. This is the exact same thing. Don’t buy Leicas. Or buy them. Buy them from me so you get a cleaned, tested, and guaranteed camera. Or don’t. I honestly just want to people to be happy.

      Reply
      • David February 9, 2020 at 9:26 pm

        Hence the difficulty of snarky humor on the internet, as you couldn’t see I was wearing my emperor Napoleon hat as I was typing.
        The truth is I felt shamed, as I had recently bought my newly college graduated son an M6ttl at his request, instead of a good used car. I knew that soon after getting that most expensive camera, his car would go kaput anyway.
        I truly didn’t think that you operated as a market manipulator, Jimbo,

        Reply
        • James Tocchio February 9, 2020 at 10:29 pm

          I figured. You’ve always been very kind in the comments over the years. Who needs a car when you’ve got Leica glass?

          Reply
    • Cory Miller February 9, 2020 at 6:36 am

      Since we’re talking conspiracy theories, how much film does Fuji still have frozen in its underground bunker? I’m quite fond of Velvia

      Reply
  • Andy Smart February 9, 2020 at 2:36 am

    I acquired a few years ago from my mother in law her film EOS camera stuff as she’d stopped photographing, they’re plastic and are worth not a whole lot on eBay. I use them lots and they’re great, and I just use the AV or manual modes like I do on my digital canon stuff. I use my 1970s / 80s Pentax kit a lot too, and my trip 35 I bought because I couldn’t afford one in the 70s, and my Yashica point and shoot, and the aps point and shoot from whenever. They all let me make good photos (apart from the aps one which makes ‘interesting’ photos).

    Reply
  • plainfieldandshorewoodillinoisnew February 9, 2020 at 11:29 am

    Why do these cameras have to be called “dorky?” They’re currently overlooked, and sell for a fraction of what they once went for brand new but calling them “dorky” plays in to the smug elitism that pervades the photography community in regards to certain gear.

    Reply
    • Castelli Daniel February 9, 2020 at 8:38 pm

      You’re right…as Lucy tells Charlie Brown way back when Charlie Brown’s Christmas was first broadcast, Christmas is run by an East Coast Syndicate. Well, camera elitism is run by a similar group, which, like fight club, is something we can’t talk about…

      Reply
  • Malcolm Myers February 9, 2020 at 2:54 pm

    I said a similar thing about the Canon EOS 300 in an article on 35mmc.com (I hope you don’t mind the reference to other websites).

    https://www.35mmc.com/01/09/2018/canon-eos-300-review/

    Reply
    • James Tocchio February 9, 2020 at 7:28 pm

      Course not. Most of the camera bloggers and YouTubers are all buddies. We’re even in a big honkin’ private chat group on Facebook. It’s great.

      Reply
  • Randy Lynn Keeler February 9, 2020 at 7:27 pm

    James, Thank You. A provocative article surely. The ‘Jim and James Show’-yes.. I could see it now. ‘Come watch as Jim and James have the time of there lives shooting antique cameras and having fun!’ As I bulk load another roll for my XE-1 and the Maxxum 7000 that I have 60 bucks invested in.

    Reply
  • Arty February 9, 2020 at 9:06 pm

    I am not happy to see this article. There are a few of us who really enjoy being able to buy these cameras for pennies on the dollar of what they are worth. We DO NOT want the word to get out! 🙂

    Reply
  • David Anstey February 10, 2020 at 10:59 am

    I own a couple of Spotmatics along with a Canon 650 which might be described as a cheap modern camera. The 650 is a nice camera with my Canon 24-105 Lf4 kit lens for sure but I can’t say I enjoy shooting it like I do my Spotmatic using Sunny 16 and my little cache of Takumar primes.

    Reply
  • ddigitalintrigue February 10, 2020 at 11:01 am

    It’s not an either/or proposition. I too enjoy the older manual focus SLRs very much, but sometimes the later/lighter/faster AF SLRs are better for certain situations. They are so cheap now — no reason to not have examples of each type. 🙂

    Reply
  • Robert C February 10, 2020 at 3:19 pm

    I just bought a n8008 and I am impressed with how it works for just 20$ I thought for sure these would cost more. to be honest I see no difference in performance (other than maybe auto focus) to a canon Eos 1n or 1. but those are going for triple or 4 times the price. although they are great cameras I cant get over the plasticy ness of them. I do think if more people buy these old early 90s – early 2000s slr cameras as their beginner cameras maybe the prices will go down on some of the other cameras. I will say I have owned a leica m3 since 2003, back then the prices were not so high and its one my favorite all-time cameras. The only other camera that I have used that comes close to the M3 in terms of mechanical build quality I can think of is the nikon f2 series. I also have never understood why the xpan cameras go for so much..

    Reply
  • Cape Fear Photo February 10, 2020 at 5:16 pm

    Thought I’d chime in here as a lab owner….

    You would be amazed at the number of people who come in looking to buy their first film camera, and probably 80% ask about a Canon AE-1P. If I’ve got one I’ll sell it to them, but always with the advice that they could save a lot of money and get better results with a newer automatic camera. I try not to steer them toward something with no manual settings, because I do think there is something good about learning to control all aspects, but most of them buy the AE1P because, I’m the words of one customer, “It looks better in selfies.” Which, okay, fine. But the frustrating part is when they bring me their first roll of film, and it’s all over the map with poor exposure, and almost always out of focus. They usually shoot one, maybe two, more rolls, and they never come back, because they don’t want to learn to use it properly to get good results, and they’re tired of paying for poor results. On the flip side, the handful of people that have listened and settled on the occasional F100 or Elan 7 continue to shoot, switch from Superia to Portra, and create killer images. Typically, if I convince someone to go with something like a Maxxum or N90 or even a Rebel 2000, they’ll stick with it for a few months or a year before moving up to a slightly more expensive (still way cheaper than a Leica) F4 or EOS 1. The really serious ones then make the jump to medium or large format.

    Then again, I go through the same speech about expired and unreliable film. After the first roll or two that’s so far gone it’s an ocean of red cast, and the camera lives on a shelf and they’re back to their phone.

    For me, it’s about results. I don’t want a customer to take poor quality photos. I want them to get good results. But I can’t keep AE1Ps in stock, while I’ve got stacks of AF bodies. My margins are roughly the same, so financially it doesn’t really matter to me, but I hate seeing people discouraged when their photos look nothing like the influencers they follow, and they give up on film.

    Reply
    • Terry June 25, 2021 at 3:59 pm

      This is a great perspective. Thank you

      Lots of commenters — me included — are coming from the point of view of relatively experienced photographers. We know sort of — maybe very well — how a camera works and have preferences about how it works for us, and how we want to work with the camera.

      Less experienced photographers should have a good first experience, backed up by Aha! moments as they unlock knowledge, experience, and success. Cheap cameras make it accessible, sophisticated auto exposure AF cameras make for good results and happy feelings. I’d add that there are probably three main caveats to the “dorky AF camera” recommendation:

      Easily understood displays so observant users can see what the camera is doing for them (and advice to pay attention and maybe take notes). I think this is most important.

      The ability to turn off the automation gradually and start doing manual photography — if you want to. I don’t feel like this is required of the photographer. Make your own art your own way. But it’s something most enthusiasts will want to try eventually if they have enough success on their learning curve to stick with it.

      Easily understood manual controls once you do start using them — quite a few otherwise amazing dorky AF cameras have obscure manual controls that make it harder for new users to transfer knowledge from/to other cameras. Sometimes the traditional ways are best.

      James, I like this article a lot and come back to it at least once a week. A neat idea might be a series of articles by less experienced photographers using exactly these kinds of cameras. Give them a Maxxum and a wad of film and and notepad and find out: how was the experience of putting aside all the scary details and just taking pictures. What happens when there’s almost zero consequences for smashing the camera because you could buy a dozen more for $100 (with lenses) and the same film works in all of them?

      Reply
    • Alex June 26, 2021 at 2:29 am

      That actually was my way. I shoot film for a little more than 2 years and my first device was EOS 66. It was really hard to make a technicaly bad exposure with it. After about 6 months I realized it’s not much fun as the AF isn’t accurate and batteries drain like crazy. So I bought a Pentax P30. Manual rewind, aperture ring clicking, minimalistic and bright viewfinder… It was another level! It served me well a year untill the shutter jammed and then I got an MX. That’s my gradual journey from full automation to a mechanical camera.

      Reply
  • tek314159 February 10, 2020 at 5:17 pm

    I love this post, and agree 90%. I would put a few caveats:

    If you’re going to go out and get a 1990s film SLR, not all models are equal. If you stick to the stuff that was considered pro back in the day, you’ll get something like you describe above – fully whiz-bang, easy-to-use, lots of bells and whistles. But maybe stay away from the low-end consumer stuff from that era. You can use the same lenses and get the same image quality, but there’s a chance it’ll actually be harder to shoot anything manual. For the same reason that modern low-end DSLRs/mirrorless only have a PASM dial and everything else is hidden from the user.

    Also, there may be a slight advantage to sticking with Nikon and Pentax since they’re still using the same lens mounts. This was one of the reasons my first film SLR was a Nikon back in the actual 90s, and the decision served me well into the digital world. I’m still using the glass I bought 25 years ago.

    That all being said, people aren’t shooting film these days for any practical reason. It just feels nice to have a simple hunk of metal and glass hanging around your neck, and with that in mind I can’t imagine anyone trading something as full of character as an M3 for a late-90s (admittedly superior) Minolta.

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  • Steve Rosenblum February 10, 2020 at 5:45 pm

    I totally agree with you. Here is a similar article that I wrote in which I put together a Contax T2 equivalent camera for $109. https://theonlinephotographer.typepad.com/the_online_photographer/2017/09/so-you-say-you-want-to-shoot-film.html

    Reply
  • nicholashclark February 11, 2020 at 3:54 am

    Oddly enough, that photo of the Maxxum 5 and M3 spec sheets (and the entirety of Argument Part 1) is exactly why I have zero interest in the former, and nearly all of my 35mm cameras are manual, mechanical, cloth-focal plane dinosaurs.

    If I wanted a camera that can do anything/everything I’d use my Pen F (the digital one). I don’t even know how most of the ‘features’ on that thing work… If I want the latest and greatest and metering and bracketting and etc. and blahblahblah and I actually care about the ‘objectively better camera’, then there’s no way I’m shooting 35mm film.

    The main reason I shoot 35mm film is because I enjoy using mechanical 35mm cameras.

    Reply
  • POLKa February 12, 2020 at 3:59 am

    I am 72 and was interested in photography since I was 10 (with the camera of my father, and including film developping and making B&W slides by contact printing on “safety film” – in red light). My own first camera was a Yashica Electro 35 – bought in 1967 for its innovative eletronic shutter. Then in 1971, I bought a Rolleiflex T with my first pay, and in 1979 a Minox 35EL bargain priced (but also for its electronic shutter and its streamlined compactness). I never was interested in Like-Ass or Hassle-Blades, and did not like Canon because every so and then they changed lens mount. But when they disclosed EOS systems, I immediately bought a 630 which I still consider a very nice camera. In the mean time, I started to “collect” all kinds of old style cams (Miranda EE, Konica Autoreflex T, Olympus Pen F etc.) when I find them “special” and because 20 years ago, they were bargains like your Dorky cams today (an example : a Pentax Spotmatic body for 10$ with a Helios44 for 1$). Now and then, I shoot them all (for my EOS 630, as batteries were expensive, I recently acquired rechargeable ones with a dedicated charger) ; and still process and enlarge analogic. Today I even sport self-made cams (anamorphic pinhole cams see in french : https://galerie-photo.com/photographie-anamorphique-stenope.html).

    Reply
  • Castelli Daniel February 12, 2020 at 8:55 am

    A nice narrative until you took the childish swipe at the users of Leica & Hasselblad cameras. Don’t we have enough divisive comments coming from the man who occupies the White House without it oozing into our hobby/advocation/art discussions? Do you feel the need to demean users of these particular camera types? Why? You’re not witty nor insightful when you make digs like this.

    Reply
    • James Tocchio February 12, 2020 at 10:53 am

      Quote me anywhere in this article where I took a swipe at users of Leica and Hasselblad? It didn’t happen. I own Leica SLRs and use them every day. I pointed out the absurdity of YouTube hype doctors and illustrated in a humorous way that old cameras made seventy years ago aren’t as good as cameras made twenty years ago. I didn’t demean anybody. Chill.

      Reply
      • Dan Castelli February 12, 2020 at 2:42 pm

        Jim,
        My comment was directed at the person identified as “POLKa” when they stated: “I never was interested in Like-Ass or Hassle-Blades…”
        It was not directed at you and I should have been more specific in my response to that particular person. I apologize for the misunderstanding.
        When I wrote the reply I assumed it would appear as a reply to that person.
        Dan

        Reply
        • James Tocchio February 12, 2020 at 3:30 pm

          Sorry for getting my hackles up then! My mistake! I also missed the previous comment and after reading it, I agree with you.

          Reply
  • Castelli Daniel February 12, 2020 at 4:02 pm

    So, you wanna get a beer?

    Reply
  • Jessica Li February 18, 2020 at 2:56 pm

    Hi James,
    I really enjoyed this article! I recently bought a Nikon N65 for $8.99 at Goodwill. I am quite impressed with this plastic fantastic camera. Other than the fact that the double CR2 batteries cost about twice as much as the price of this camera, I can agree with you in this article that these dorky AF SLRs gives me the most bang for the buck. I can save the money to buy more film, which makes it a better value. I also think it is a good camera to transition from DLSRs to film as a beginner, because the controls are somewhat the same in a simplified way. Is there ever a chance you will do a review on the Nikon N65? It would be great to know any tips and tricks with using this camera! I always enjoy your writing. I appreciate that you shine a light on not so popular but still fantastic cameras. I will keep reading!
    – Jessica

    Reply
  • Stefan Staudenmaier February 23, 2020 at 9:21 pm

    Well……it is written in a funny style and to be honest
    „Who really cares so much about Cameras“ ?

    Geeks like us right I guess !
    But we are not „the real consumers“ these „plastic fantastic“
    and dirty cheap pieces of soulless junk was build for.

    There consumers now replaced cameras with their smartphones
    and „right“ they get all they want with that because they are not
    interested in the process of photography or don’t even care about
    the difference look and value of a good composed and taken picture.

    It is the photographer and not the camera – I agree,
    but don’t you have any joy taking the picture ?
    I think you would agree that there is a difference doing this
    with a solid like a rock build Leica or a Nikon N65 with the charm of a lunchbox.

    I love these big pieces of glas and metal without any automatics.
    You carry them half a day and your neck feels like it would break in the next second.
    You have to do anything yourself, focus, film transport, measure the exposure etc.

    So why the hell am I doing this ?

    Why cooking all yourself instead just open a can of instand noodles ?
    There must be something different……or not ?

    Reply
  • Stefan Staudenmaier February 23, 2020 at 9:27 pm

    Sorry I forgot……idiots like me buy cameras like the Leicaflex SL2
    definitely the best mechanical camera ever build by anyone and to
    make a point – nobody will ever build anything near that quality ever more.

    It is unique and maybe this is the reason or the fun using it.

    Reply
  • Anders Nereim February 24, 2020 at 6:44 pm

    The film camera you will shoot most often and easily and effectively is the best one. Oh the pain I suffered under my father’s eyes as I trimmed the leaders and stuffed film crookedly down into the depths of the unforgiving IIIf he gave me when I was 13 (the year he switched to Nikon SLRs…). I think I loaded and shot three wretched rolls on that Leica all told, sunny 16 and all. Once I saw dad rewind and load and advance a new roll on the Nikon F in 5 seconds, I was a jealous Nikon convert. And sure enough, I got an Ftn with dad’s cast off lenses in 1974, and shot with them very often and happily for decades.

    Reply
  • Brian February 25, 2020 at 2:36 pm

    I really enjoyed this article and would like to see a similar one made about medium format cameras if you haven’t already published one (in which case please link me). I’m in the market currently for my first medium format camera and any help I can get to prevent me from making poor decisions would be appreciated.

    Reply
  • Alex Ramos February 28, 2020 at 4:49 pm

    I occasionally shoot with a Japanese built Pentax *ist. It’s fun, but has the noisiest auto film advance I’ve ever heard! Nonetheless I’ve gotten good results from it. I use a couple of DA APS-C lenses on it, a 35mm f2.4 and a 50mm f1.8, along with a 1st gen (!) Tamron 28-200. The fov for the two DA lenses is very close to the FF versions, just a tiny bit of vignetting.

    Also, the reduced viewfinder frame coverage takes some adjustment.

    Definitely not a camera for brutal assignments because of the lighter build, but it can do the trick in a pinch, especially if one is heavily dependent on shooting with Pentax DSLRs.

    Reply
  • Erich March 7, 2020 at 4:05 am

    Thought provoking article you have written, well done. People who know me are aware of my desire to collect film Cameras. I’m asked why I do that. Film cameras are a dead end in the world of digital cameras. Film cameras are yesterday’s technology. I tell folks “Not so”. Film will be manufactured as long as the equipment that use film still work properly and parts are still available. I think the last of the film cameras will be large format due to the fact that large format is the simplest camera to construct but a need of understanding to master. I do have a pre-war Leica,1936 by the serial number. This camera came to me by way of my Dad. He got this camera by way of his cousin who was in Patton’s Third Army. Dad’s cousin’s job was to appropriate fuel by any means possible. A war spoil it is.

    Reply
  • Ricardo Martinez May 8, 2020 at 9:02 pm

    Dear James
    Thank you for a great article. I agree and disagree at the same time as I agree and disagree with me when I am going out taking pictures with my dynax 7 and Olympus 35 SP.
    I enjoy the superb perfection of the Minolta and think why I am wasting my time with the old rangefinder that force me to convert the EV values in the viewfinder giving me sometimes bad exposure…. but then when I have days later the beautiful black version of the Leica’s poor man in my hands again my soul embrace the sublime experience of old photography.
    Humans are difficult to understand… specially this one. For me it is about the experience of taking pictures rather than practicality or efficiency.
    I am still bouncing between the superb Minolta and the exquisite Olympus….
    All the best …
    Ricardo

    Reply
  • Kai May 26, 2020 at 2:13 pm

    I totally agree with your article! I just want to add, that a lot of the SLRs from the 90s and 00s probably work great with modern lenses. I use my Canon EOS 100 SLR with my Sigma Art primes and love the look and sharpness.

    Reply
  • ben June 8, 2020 at 9:05 am

    Pentax ME + M28/A50 serve me so well,
    since i avoid auto winding / dx coding then using the Super A for my DA lenses (though shutter priority only).

    ben

    Reply
  • Alex N July 5, 2020 at 2:45 am

    OMG 100 comments here. Maybe someone already argued about it, but AF wasn’t that effective 20 years ago. It’s my experience of using EOS66 and EOS300 with some kit 28-80mm lens. It’s the first annoying thing you get. You have just 36 frames (not a128gb memory card) to “experiment” with focusing. Second annoying thing is the battery drain. And batteries are more expensive these days than the camera itself. I won’t be mentioning the price of AF lenses once people realize the kit zoom lens isn’t fun. So, yes camera bodies of 90s and 2000 are dirt cheap now, buy you’ll pay more at the end of the day 🙂

    Reply
    • digitalintrigue July 5, 2020 at 11:01 am

      Never used an EOS66 or 300, but AF has been plenty good with many cameras going back to the early 90s. Nikon F4, F5, F100, F80, to name several, all are quite accurate. Didn’t waste film then, and won’t today. 🙂

      Reply
    • rfcn2 July 5, 2020 at 2:35 pm

      I agree with digital intrigue and can say that of the four Minolta 600si bodies I have owned that they are very accurate AF. I frequently take close ups/ macros with these bodies where accurate focus is essential and it is easy to tell if it is off, the Minolta 600sis that I have owned do well. I currently have three of these camera bodies along with Nikon digital mirrorless Z7 and Z50 bodies. In practice the Minoltas are as good as the six month old Nikons.

      Reply
  • Jim Graves August 9, 2020 at 9:26 pm

    Although I enjoy using my manual focus slr’s, the camera I take out with me the most is my Nikon F801. Marketed as the 8008 in the USA, the Nikon F801 is the capable and cheaper option for those of use not able to afford an F100 or F4. I was given a Nikon F801, a 50mm f/1.8 AIS and an SB24 flash by a dear friend who figured i would use it rather than it continuing to collect dust in his attic. He wasn’t wrong. I use a Nikon D700 when I am out and about enjoying the nature trails near my home. The ability to switch easily between a film camera and a DSLR is very convenient and means I am not carrying two lots of gear. I take an AF Nikkor 50mm 1.8D on the F801, an AF Nikkor 24-120mm f3.5-5.6 D on the D700 and a Tamron AF 70-300 Di LD Macro 1:2. Switching lenses and cameras is easy, the layout is very familiar despite there being 30 years between them. I like the F801 so much I bought another from Kamerastore.com in Finland for around £40. I also invested in some rechargeable batteries to save money in the long term, but 4 Duracell Ultra AA batteries will last for years.

    Reply
  • Elizabeth August 9, 2020 at 11:09 pm

    I really liked my maxxum 4, but it was stolen, then I bought a 5, and used it until it quit working. Used a couple of digital cameras and not a single one ever had as clear of pictures as the maxxums. Just recently bought another 4and shot one role of film and it wouldn’t rewind. Just bought another 5 last week. Hopefully this one will last for years!

    Reply
  • gigette November 17, 2020 at 10:15 am

    in complete agreement! some of my favorite and best images were shot on film with my ugly old canon A2 (albeit with a newer pro lens). it just worked. i’ve shot with a plethora of other “cool” film cameras since then…even very expensive ones. i think i’m ready for ugly again.

    Reply
  • Chips November 24, 2020 at 11:18 am

    Great article. I’m a newcomer to photography and picked up a Minolta Dynax 5 in a charity shop just before this lockdown for £15 ($20). Works great, so easy to use and loving it.

    Reply
  • Ted Miller November 26, 2020 at 10:48 am

    I just sold a MINT F801s (N8008s in the US) with a MINt Nikon SB-24 flash from the same era for $60. That to me is almost a crime. That is one of the best cameras ever made. Full stop. Solid as a rock and 30 years later still working perfectly. The lenses for that time were also really nice.

    Reply
  • Robe January 2, 2021 at 4:46 pm

    GAS really isn’t about better images, it’s about the gear itself, the aesthetic beauty of it. That Geo Metro gets much better gas mileage than that 50’s Alfa Romeo. To me, holding something of true beauty is what gets me out the door to shoot sometimes. I’m sure it’s the same thing for people who collect watches, surely newer digital watches are more consistently accurate and have more features. But to have this buffet of camera history in front of you, to learn about and lust after, makes it such a fun hobby. I wouldn’t have the best anything as a kid in the 1950’s, but I can now. That being said, true photographers will shoot on a disposable and get fantastic results. The rest of us posers just want to steep in the glory of the hobby. 🙂

    Reply
  • Bruno January 15, 2021 at 7:13 pm

    Really enjoyed this article -mostly because it’s funny, but I personally disagree although it’s full of glaring truths. My dream camera is my go-to, hand-me down OM1. Because of its small size, simplicity and beauty it is the camera you want to always take with you and always can. It costs about £100 on eBay. I feel like if you love photography you have to absolutely love the tool and af DSLRs are hard to love.

    Great article though.

    Reply
  • Peter Bidel Schwambach January 24, 2021 at 3:03 pm

    While I wouldn’t trade in my FM2 for nothing in this world, I can see where you’re coming from. My FM2 was a hand me down from my dad, who bought it new in 1984, so it had the sweet, sweet price tag of free attached to it. Back in 2019, I gave my wife a Fuji Instax, and, at 700 Brazilian Monies, that was probably the most I’ve ever paid for a camera. This last Christmas, I gifter her a 1977 Nikon EM, which also cost me zero monies due to i being attached to a lens I wanted real bad, and the seller figuing he might as well throw in the camera for free than lose the sale of the lens, so I guess you could say that was the last I’ve ever paid for a camera… However, I aldo gifted one of my best friends a Nikon F60, barely even used, brand new and fully functional, in the original box, with the original instruction manual and even OEM strap. The whole set cost me 119 Brazilian monies, which sums up to about 20 dollars.

    That’s what I call cheap, and, in all honesty, if I was looking for a camera for myself, I’d lust after the same FM2 I own today, but I’d probably buy the F60.

    Reply
  • ben CF January 24, 2021 at 9:31 pm

    just acquired a Canon T70 ($15) for a niece who just got into film photography, but also recently a Nikomat FT2, Minolta SRT101b, Canon AL-1 & another SPF for myself,
    so what’s next, probably a Minolta 7000?😅

    Reply
  • Castelli Daniel January 24, 2021 at 9:55 pm

    You’re a good uncle!

    Reply
  • ben CF January 24, 2021 at 10:05 pm

    ….but i also promised her one of my F-1’s once she got serious😂

    Reply
  • Dion B February 7, 2021 at 6:18 pm

    My most used cameras are the AF plastic fantastic F100, F5 and Fuji 645 medium format. Big, clunky and/or heavy yes but I’ll put up with that because they feel right in my hands, auto focus and exposure are almost always spot on so perfect for a point and shooter like me.

    Reply
  • Mr Bojangles 69 February 9, 2021 at 6:13 pm

    This has been stewing in my brain ever since I was gifted several Minolta 7000i’s. They are highly dynamic cameras that get literally no street cred. I think the reason I don’t really use them is two fold: one, I don’t shoot 35mm that much and two, they are not quite as manual as I would like my camera to be.

    I also agree with hype pricing. I posted on Reddit’s r/analogcommunity one time, asking “so…why is a Mamiya 7 body 2000 dollars?” I was immediately destroyed, ripped apart for questioning such a dynamic, high powered, tried, true, and tested deity of a camera. I also mentioned Leicas in the comments and was further annihilated for taking the Holy L’s name in vain.

    Don’t get me wrong, I own my fair share of expensive niche cameras, even that weird Rolleiflex SL2000F. But I totally agree.

    Reply
  • Sean Elkins February 18, 2021 at 6:58 pm

    I have exactly zero desire to shoot a roll of 35mm film, but if for some reason I had to I would absolutely choose my N80 or my N90s over my FM2 even though it’s one of those revered classics. However, if you told me I absolutely had to make one good image in Antarctica I would take the FM2 and some sort of C41 print film over the most expensive and recent digital camera in existence. Horses for courses.

    Reply
  • Victor Van Natter February 19, 2021 at 10:23 pm

    Great article. I love my minolta sr1s, and xd-11 with all my lovely old metal lenses, even my autocord; and some of my best pictures is with a canon rebel 2000. It’s just so easy to use. And I get to steal all my wife’s collection of ef glass. And auto focus is awesome

    Reply
  • Tom Schriefer February 21, 2021 at 5:53 pm

    It is time for me to chime in with respect to old(er) AF film cameras. I’ve been on a film bender for about 2 years. Lots of Medium Format range-finders and Manual Focus 35mm cameras have come and gone over those 2 years. I have settled on 1 Pentax 645N/35A and 45-85mm FA for my medium format film work, which is where I started 55 years ago. Back then it was a Brownie Hawkeye Flash. I am still trying to decide amongst several 35mm AF bodies. By hook, or by crook, everything I have left is Canon: 650, 300X, 1, 1N, 3, 1V. For the life of me, I can’t find a difference; I love all of them. The 650 is Canon’s first AF/EF body. It does everything I need a film camera to do, and it cost me $19.99. Skipping the intermediaries, the 1V also does everything I need a film camera to do, in a much more modern package. It cost me $500+.
    I still have a 5DII and and 80D. Neither gets used much these days. Digital is relegated to birthday parties, family gatherings, and dogs at the park; dynamic stuff. While shooting digital, I did manage to acquire some nice lenses. Canon primes and Sigma Art zooms work just as well on the EOS 650 as they do on the digital bodies.
    Why film? Quite simply, it is more fun than digital. And…, as Pink Floyd said… this is where I came in.

    Reply
  • Spencer KR March 5, 2021 at 6:19 pm

    You’re not an idiot, I am. As I’m writing this, my 90s plastic cheap-and-amazing SLR is on eBay. I’m selling it and its fantastic lens so I can afford another clunky, unreliable SLR from the 60s to compliment my K1000. And I’m doing all of this because I’m stupid.

    So, because me caveman, make picture, me get big mad when press shutter button no click. My 90s SLR knows more than me, it knows the light is wrong, it knows the flash isn’t warmed up, it knows not to take the picture. But I still get mad whenever this happens. I know I’m wrong, that the aforementioned conditions mean they are not “missed shots” but my K1000 is caveman like me, press shutter, click shutter.

    And speaking of clicks… the clockwork symphony, the springs, the flywheels, the ratchets, the clicks, clunks, creaks, and clatters. Sometimes, I take pictures with this camera just to listen to it. In a world where everything just beeps, my K1000 is a refuge. It’s like luddite catnip.

    Final thing, (and this is where I lose the last person reading this who may have agreed with me) I already have a camera with amazing, contemporary capabilities, it just so happens to be digital. I can have the auto focus, auto exposure, auto taste, auto sense-of-fulfillment-in-life experience any time I want as long as I’m willing to deal with the inconvenience of 10,000 pictures on a postage stamp that I can view instantly. Why would I do something reasonable like buy a late model film camera with similar controls and capabilities for the price of a takeout meal when I could spend enough money to finally put a new battery in my car on a relic that barely deigns to tell me if it’s day or night with it’s match-needle?

    Reply
  • Peter Vroegindeweij April 15, 2021 at 1:28 am

    Having just about three months ago dumped my eos-620 with accompanying lenses I resent this article. Thanks a lot!

    Reply
  • retrocrank April 21, 2021 at 5:45 pm

    When I bought an N65 when they were new, I almost quit using my Nikkormats. So much easier to put in the backpack and use on the trail, and the kit zoom was as versatile as a bag of lenses, optically way superior to the 35-105 Nikkor I’d sometimes use, and far lighter than just about any non-AF Nikkor (exception perhaps the 45mm GN – but that doesn’t really get used).

    When my son was born, the N65 was so much easier to use for the baby pictures. Quick, with a built in flash and everything.

    Then my wife gave me a digital camera along with an insistent request to use the thing, and I quit shooting film for a few years. So nice, no focusing, no exposure setting, just technically purrfick pictures time after time after time.

    When I decided I missed the darkroom, I got out the old Nikons and started shooting film. The nice lady who sold me an enlarger tossed in an F3 and a couple of lenses for a few dollars more. Uh oh, a collection of film cameras.

    I’ll tell you what the old manual SLRs do that the N65 can’t. First, there’s the very practical thing that one doesn’t have to use DX-coded film canisters. Any 35mm canister that you can roll film into works just fine and doesn’t confuse even the F3 (the newest old SLR in the bunch). And then there’s just the sheer pleasure of using an old mechanical device. Sometimes they can be better in some ways than the plastic wonders, although one pays a price for that feature…… a while back I bought an S2 just to see what the ‘rangefinder experience’ was all about. I love it, so small and light compared to the SLRs. Even the N65. Really, really sharp optics but one cannot go fast with it, not at all.

    I gave the N65 to a friend – it’s role in my life has been taken over by a G1xMk3.

    I enjoy the old manual mechanical beasts – the idea of setting up my own exposure, the focusing routine (including figuring out what I want DoF to look like) are all enjoyable practices. If I’m going to engage in the film anachronism, why not go full boot and be anachronistic? When I go places, I also prefer to drive a 50 or 60 year old car or ride a bicycle to the modern wonders of automotive personal transport. They all get the job done, just with different sets of kicks and giggles. I prefer the involvement of the old mechanical wizardry, and I can take it apart and fix it when it’s broke.

    But ultimately you’re correct – if the sole object is to make images on film, that N65 was probably the best device to easily make routinely well-focused and exposed pictures.

    Reply
  • Rida Choubai May 9, 2021 at 1:33 pm

    Exactly what I’ve been thinking about. After seeing the rise of film photography on social media, I started researching (3 days ago, heck of a research) about film cameras to get me started. Having tried a Nikon FM and a Canon FTb, I really thought I needed something more advanced (even if less cool) to really start enjoying the process more. And while researching, I dind’t get why older cameras priced so high when far better technology sells for pennies on the dollar. I litterlally googled “why people don’t buy late film cameras” and stumbled upon your article. It now makes sanse, thanks!

    And I have a question: what would you reccommend between the Nikon F and the Canon EOS systems, for their most recent film SLR’s ? I’d love to get either the Nikon F90 or the Canon EOS 30

    Reply
  • David Wiew May 18, 2021 at 8:16 pm

    I totally agree! I almost always suggest these kinds of cameras to newbies who want their first film camera. I love the Maxxum 5 and the F80. I’ve got both because they are so small and light and perfect for most any situation.

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  • Tony B May 24, 2021 at 2:38 pm

    Apart from the clickbait title, I agree with all of this. My favourite 35mm film camera is the OM1n, my best 35mm film camera is the Minolta 800Si. One is all about beauty and aesthetics, the other is a big heavy plastic monstrosity of a camera. However, they’re completely different tools for different jobs, the OM is for leisurely shooting, where you have all the time in the world to meter, compose and shoot, sometimes on a tripod. The Minolta is a camera for grabbing shots in a fast moving environment, where getting the shot matters most. It’s chock full of features, including AF (including continuous), spot & matrix metering, the most powerful onboard flash you’ll find on any camera, including digital (GN20), eye sensor activation, recording of shot data etc etc, all you need to do is compose and it’ll do all the rest for you, flawlessly. If you want to gain confidence in shooting with film, then the Minolta is an easy choice, and not expensive at all either, definitely cheaper than a good condition OM1n.

    Truth be told I’d rather take my time and use my OM1n, but there are just times when the Minolta is a much better choice, it just completely outguns the OM1n in every single way (mirror lock-up being the only exception), you’ll struggle to find any 35mm camera more capable than the Minolta, and although it’s plastic it’s a very solid type, not flimsy like more modern plastics. There are lots of choices from the late 80’s to 2000’s of these types of cameras, which can be bought for peanuts, many of them are extremely good, dismiss them and you’re missing out on some excellent cameras.

    Reply
  • Kayvon Murphy June 30, 2021 at 10:51 pm

    My first, and most fun film camera was a Canon 650 with a 40mm pancake. Thanks for the reminder.

    Reply
  • Dash July 9, 2021 at 1:43 pm

    For me owning a Nikon F100, F4, and F80, it gets me into the film mode while allowing me to nail focus as I have a hard time nailing focus on MF because of my weird eyesight. I still find myself slowing down with film even though my cameras are modern. I am able to still concentrate on my image and enjoy the process. I always tell other newer photographers to pick up a film camera and shoot even if you’re primarily digital because I feel it just grounds you as a photographer (its a philosophy passed down to me from those who helped teach and mentor me).

    Added bonus is all my cameras come from the era in which I grew up so its a nostalgic connection owning late 80s-90s bodies.

    Reply
  • tbm3fan July 31, 2021 at 1:36 am

    Late to this but the question early on that people ask that drives others crazy was “what’s the best camera.” I can actually counter that with one can always creates endless back and forth talk. Being also a car collector that question which does drive me crazy is “what’s the best oil for my car.” Does that ever open a hornet’s nest of comments. Way more than 144 here and could go one for years on the bigger auto forums. You actually got off easy but I agree as I have two 5s for less than $25 each. A veritable steal when you sit down and really think about it.

    Reply
  • Rory L August 10, 2021 at 10:27 pm

    I agree and I disagree. Yes it’s nonsense to buy one of the cameras of the moment for stupid money just because a bunch of people on YouTube and Instagram tell you it’s the best. I don’t think however that late SLRs are better than more basic earlier SLRs in the context of the current revival of film photography. Those late SLRs could do everything digital can do; but what’s driving the film revival is a yearning for the simpler, more tactile experience of mechanical technology. Manually focusing your shots, physically advancing the film with a lever, manually winding the film back when the roll is finished; these are all fundamental elements of the revival. It was the same when vinyl came back. The turntables that were being sought after, and new turntables subsequently produced, we’re not the fully automated, all singing, all dancing, hight of turntable tech that ever existed, they were the most basic fully or semi manual turntables you could imagine. Again it goes back to the desire for the basic tactile interaction and involvement with the process, something that has been lost with digital technology. Analog technologies were replaced by digital ones but the more digital the world gets the more we realize the actually it’s not that linear and there is a place for analog technology alongside the digital.

    Reply
  • ceemonster September 6, 2021 at 1:58 pm

    How annoying of you to direct the hipster lemmings to the last and best value left in premium-quality 35mm! Hilarious and so telling about today’s analogue scene that this article should be revelatory to anyone, let alone provocative or controversial..
    These nuggets have been there for the harvesting for any 35mm folk with eyes in their head, and they work just fine set on Manual.

    But how about an add addressing the real elephant in the room—limited repairability/usability once the electronic components fail. Avoidance of these cameras for some is down to this rather than old-skool fetishizing. Will the camera-geek hacker-techs be able to gerry-rig solutions to keep these cameras going??? Will Nikon, et al, do the right thing and release–or hey, sell– the codes and blueprints to let these cameras live on rather than die in the scrapyard?

    Reply
  • EMC December 7, 2021 at 8:13 am

    The very moment you consider shooting indoors or late in the evening the whole concept collapses. Any decent available-light lens is either non-AF, or costs 300+. (Double it for zooms.)

    Economising is a road to nowhere. Cheap SLR lens is not much better than some zoomy compact, but compact is pocketable — need i say more?

    Reply
  • antoine31 December 21, 2021 at 6:17 pm

    OK, maybe. But why would you say the Mamiya 7 is “enormous and “impractical”? It’s obviously one of the best cameras ever made for 6×7, and with spectacular optics that produces fabulous pictures. Expensive? Well you get what you pay for.

    Reply
    • galleryrjl December 21, 2021 at 9:23 pm

      Because it is impractical and expensive. Its an awesome camera that takes fabulous pictures. Those statements are not mutually exclusive.

      Reply
  • thewiz January 3, 2022 at 4:50 pm

    This article resonated heavily with me. I recently started shooting film again with the Elan IIe that I bought new in high school after saving up from my barely above minimum wage job. This was after at least 15+ years of shooting some form of digital. I also own a 5D and a 5DIII and shoot them exclusively in Manual (using both the actual light meter and the LCD for metering). In addition, I have a Canon S95 with the brilliant ring dial that I have often shot in Manual as well.

    Reading some of the insufferable film bloggers is hilarious. It’s also clear that some of them have no experience shooting and are just producing filler. It often feels like one big echo chamber with the same old tropes regarding the same hipster cameras:

    1) the build quality on this 60s/70s Real Actual Metal™ camera is so much better, even though your plasticky 80s camera has held up just fine for 25-35 years. But of course every single example of those 60s/70s cameras on KEH is sold “ugly” or “as-is” with no warranty, and half the blogposts are about picking up cheap crap on fleaBay that the writer hopes works well enough after using a few q-tips and rubbing alcohol.

    2) “aLl ThE eLeCtRoNiCs WilLl DiE qUiCkLy” — I’m in many automotive circles too, and this is just boomer nonsense that gets repeated about cars by muscle car bros.

    3) all the people telling you how great analog/manual is when their actual preference is to shoot Aperture Priority (even if it’s with a manual focus camera)

    4) weird assumptions that shoot in Manual on an electronic camera — in fact, electronic cameras have great light meters that aren’t depending on finding an adaptation for a mercury battery

    The Elan IIe, just like my full frame digitals, is a great shooter. All the controls are exactly where they need to be. I can use the same lenses I’ve been using on my full-frame digitals. Having dual knobs to set shutter and aperture manually works great! The best equipment just gets out of your way and gets the result.

    Reply
  • Castelli Daniel January 3, 2022 at 5:59 pm

    @thewiz,
    Good points on the insufferable film bloggers. But, you should be more respectful. Didn’t you know they invented film?
    I’ve made this point before: I’m in my 70’s and I’ve been processing B&W film over 50 years. I think I’ve got a handle on B&W processes.
    There is a lot of misinformation on processing, exposure, etc. Careful navigation is called for as people look for information on the web. I advise people just starting out/returning to film to always go to a known manufacturer (Ilford, Kodak, Adox) or use a reliable lab. Shoot one film, use one developer or lab services for at least 6 months. Become so comfortable with your materials and tools that you can almost predict the outcome before you shoot. You concentrate on creativity.

    Reply
    • thewiz January 3, 2022 at 7:04 pm

      LOL, @Castelli Daniel! Those insufferable bloggers truly did invent the idea of using film!

      I have never shot B&W, oddly enough. But I was very used to sending off my film to Clark/York for processing back in the day, especially for my Kodak 110 camera. Agree with what you said — predictability helps you focus on getting a good shot without your equipment/materials getting in the way.

      Also, silly autocorrect: that should be “weird assumptions that YOU CAN’T SHOOT in Manual on an electronic camera” and “dependent on finding”.

      Reply
  • Valeria UA February 5, 2022 at 2:26 am

    As an owner and hobbyist of the underappreciated Minolta products I found this article interesting. After all, one of the reasons I own a couple of Sony DSLRs of their Alpha line is because I can get Minolta lenses of varying quality and characteristics for very cheap 😆. They have come from thrift stores, ebay and I think one from a camera reseller. For the untrained like me, they are excellent learning tools.
    Also, as an admirer of history, I do enjoy reading and playing with older film cameras. I have a nice, heavy Nikon. I like their simplicity, they fact I don’t need to hunt for batteries and idk, I feel it helps me understand the process of taking decent photos. Or maybe I feel like I’m making personal history while holding history, idk

    Reply
  • Nick July 31, 2022 at 11:30 pm

    Possibly the longest comment section i’ve seen here!
    That video is incredible. Sums it up perfectly.

    Reply
  • grain_frame September 19, 2022 at 8:04 pm

    I owned both a Nikon N70 and N80, both bought brand new. They were plasticky, but good (the N80 more so). I recall LUSTING after the ‘semi-pro” N90s but being unable to afford one – I had completely forgotten that camera even existed, and just say one on eBay for $48! Holy crap, I should just buy it to appease my former self.

    I think though I prefer to split the difference – my favorite film camera is a Contax Aria. Still manual focus, of course, but released in 1998 and with many of the trappings of that era. Sort of the best of both worlds, I believe. But still, I think an NX may be in my future, if for no other reason than to round out my illogical Contax collection.

    Reply
  • Traveler April 13, 2023 at 5:15 am

    You’ve brought up a interesting point although I’m inclined to disagree with it. Virtually every camera my family bought and used from the 80’s through the 90’s ceased to function after 2 or 5 years of occasional use and were subsequently replaced with another semi-premium point and shoot cameras that would also cease to function after a few years. We were not people who bought things just because they were trendy and we kept our possessions as long as they would function. I know these are not SLRs but I feel the unimpressive longevity of these name brand cameras is representative of the design philosophy and methods of manufacture typical of that era which are not things I was impressed with then or now. This has also been true for a lot of the VCRs, computers, camcorders, and other miscellaneous technology of that era. I was a child then but I’ve always maintained a interest in photography so those were things I paid attention to. That spontaneous in-the-field failure is a experience I loathed. I don’t think your mythical engineer from the 50’s would have been impressed with that aspect either. My father used a XD-11 for about 30 years but eventually the micro-electronics degraded to the point of being irreparable per the camera repair woman but I can’t fault a camera after nearly 3 decades of reliable use.

    Contrast this experience with when I first found my Grandfather’s SRT-101 over a decade after he died. The last battery he put in that still held a charge and the camera still exposed film well enough for me to shoot slides with on my subsequent vacations for years afterwards. The CDS cells on the prism eventually failed but I purchased a donor camera and swapped out the prism/CDS assembly and re-calibrated the camera using the variable resistors on the underside of the camera to work with the donor prism assembly. This camera is still completely functional to this day nearly a decade after I made that repair. It properly exposes film after over 50 years of use and I was able to repair it myself with a service manual and no previous camera repair experience! That has to be worth something right? Don’t people still value that level of reliability?

    Around the time I made that repair I bought a Retina II and had the shutter serviced because I wanted a high quality yet small 35mm rangefinder that wasn’t battery dependent after experiences shooting in rural South America and spending all day trying to find a replacement battery for the XD-11 I was using while also trying to avoid the appearance of carrying a camera. Other countries don’t have the amount or distribution of chain stores like how we do in the United States and that can be a real issue using a battery-dependent camera like the XD-11. I haven’t yet returned to that portion of the world but I ended up using the Retina II working in wild-land fire in some of the most challenging physical conditions the lower 48 have to offer in terms of extreme heat and terrain with only a belt-worn hand-made leather case as camera protection. Despite occasional falls I’d take on various unfriendly rock screes the camera functioned perfectly every time without even losing the rangefinder adjustment. These are not features that would appear on your spec sheet but they are the hidden features of high build quality and all-metal construction and ones that I greatly appreciated. I didn’t have to fight for a outlet in the truck with the hopes of charging up my smartphone and I didn’t have to worry if the next store stop had the right type of batteries, I just had to supply the film and take the picture. We could go weeks without a store stop.

    I received a Canon T-90 from a co-worker that was serviced in the 90s and in practice it has been completely reliable. It’s not a camera I would have ever given a chance based off of the aforementioned experiences but it was free and in certain circumstances the auto-winder, being able to average multiple spot meter readings in camera, and the improved low light sensitivity of the silicon cell does offer advantages over the SRT in fast moving and low-light shooting. This is likely the newest camera I’ll use but the SRT is completely adequate for general travel photography and in some respects better due to direct controls for shutter speed and aperture without having to push buttons and scroll through prompts while still giving accurate exposures for nearly all the lighting scenarios I shoot in. You do have a point when it comes to some of the features present in these newer cameras featuring higher levels of automation even if I don’t completely agree with you.

    My needs may not be your needs and my wants may not be your wants but to say that the film cameras, even the SLRS, of the late 90’s are the ultimate manifestation of film camera technology is to have a narrow view of what cameras should or could be. The electrical gremlins that can reveal themselves with that level of technology are not to be dismissed and can be just as discouraging to a new film camera user as whatever issues that may arise from age with older cameras. The difference with the older cameras is that if one takes the initiative one can likely fix most if not all of their own issues with a camera that will be reliable for decades to come with no need for a supply of exotic electrical components from 20 years ago. I suppose the willingness to fix things versus just buying another copy if the current version breaks depends on how mercenary your relationship is with the cameras you use.

    Reply

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James Tocchio

James Tocchio is a writer and photographer, and the founder of Casual Photophile. He’s spent years researching, collecting, and shooting classic and collectible cameras. In addition to his work here, he’s also the founder of the online camera shop Fstopcameras.com.

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