Leica IIIc – Camera Review

Leica IIIc – Camera Review

2272 1278 Josh Solomon

What can we say about Leica that hasn’t already been said? The subject of countless articles and blog posts, every inch of every Leica ever made has been scrutinized ten times over. Their reputation often precedes them, and whether we like it or not, they’re the camera that so many photographers aspire to.

To the casual enthusiast, the Leica camera is a symbol of an unspoken hierarchy within the photographic world and a reminder of our rather lowly place in that world. The constant stream of Leica, Leica, Leica on social media urges us to view our otherwise incredible cameras with disappointment because they lack the famous red dot, and our photographs as subpar because they were made with a Japanese lens.

The very mention of the words “Leica M” conjures up equal parts excitement and queasiness. My admiration for the camera is tempered by the simple fact that they’re too expensive. Whenever I see one, I foolishly ask myself how serious I am about photography, and if I’ll ever reach the point where I can be proud of what’s in my bag. It’s a sorry state of affairs, all brought about by the lustful coveting of that ubiquitous brand name.

But, wait, not all Leicas are expensive. It seems there’s an entire subset of models in the Leica lineup that have somehow ducked the hype. They’re the screw mount Leicas, and the easiest to buy of this range is the Leica IIIc. Compared to the M, this camera is so rarely spoken of on social media that it’s downright obscure, which is baffling considering the camera’s strong reputation among hardcore photographers. All the moaning about cost versus capability that we so often hear leveled against the M series becomes entirely moot when discussing the IIIc.

But though I’d heard so much about the IIIc, I’d never actually shot one. To rectify this (and to finally get my mitts on an affordable Leica) I took the plunge and ordered one for myself.

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Leica gained fame by being the first company to fully embrace and subsequently popularize the 24x36mm film format that would henceforth be known as 35mm (and today’s full-frame digital sensors). The initial intent of 35mm was to give true portability to photographers unwilling to lug around the 4×5 press cameras and medium format TLRs of the era. Legend has it that the inventor of the Leica, Oskar Barnack, suffered with a bad back, and designed the Leica to be as small and light as possible in an attempt to avoid slipped discs or hernias. The resulting camera, the Leica A, embodied the very spirit of 35mm photography. It was compact, light, and easy to carry around, a revelation to press photographers and photojournalists. It’s no overstatement that the masterful design of the Leica is directly responsible for the explosion in popularity of 35mm photography that we’d see in the subsequent seven decades.

With all this historical relevance, I’m not going to lie, when my Leica finally arrived at my doorstep I was a little nervous. Like finally asking out your high school crush after weeks of torturous deliberation, handling your first Leica is an affair filled with anxiety and sweaty palms. And just like the moment you finally do ask that person out, you’re never truly prepared for what happens next.

Pulling the camera from its shipping box, the first thing that struck me was the size. The Leica IIIc hails from the lineage of this first camera, and shares the same compact and ergonomic design philosophy embodied in the Leica A. This camera is absolutely puny compared to other film cameras of the day and smaller than almost anything created since its introduction. Apart from its apparent pocketability, its remarkably diminutive stature tells us a thousand words about the ethos of the camera and of the genesis of 35mm photography itself. Today, it still feels incredibly natural in the hands, which is even more remarkable when we consider the camera’s incredible age.

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Unfortunately for us living in the digital age, that’s where the comfort ends, and even for shooters used to classic cameras, handling a Leica IIIc can be one of the most disorienting experiences around. Knobs have been placed where we typically find levers, the back doesn’t swing out for easy loading, the usual single viewfinder is here replaced by three (two of which we actually look through), there’s more than one shutter speed dial, things are written in German, there’s a weird infinity sign next to a lever that probably does something critical, and… it’s just confusing.

But after a drink of water, some research, and a few minutes of playing around with the camera, I managed to muddle through. The primary shutter speed dial has to be pulled up to operate, and selects speeds from 1/30 of a second to a surprisingly speedy 1/1000 of a second. A separate slow-speed dial on the front of the camera selects speeds down to 1 second, as well as the camera’s T mode (timed exposures). The two viewing finders constitute the machine’s separate rangefinder and viewfinder, an archaic feature that makes sense considering the camera’s advanced age. Winding and rewinding the film occurs via the knobs on opposite ends of the camera, with rewind being engaged by a wonderfully ancient-looking lever in front of the shutter release. And that infinity sign with the lever? It’s a built in diopter for the rangefinder, a godsend for the glasses-wearer.

Though easily understood after a few minutes, screw-mount Leicas will seem archaic and backwards compared to the hyper-automated wonders of today, and frankly, they shouldn’t make sense to shoot today. Yet somehow, the Leica IIIc manages to make perfect sense when one finally understands how to operate one. And just as that last thought crossed my mind, it hit me- the Leica IIIc is the Yoda of cameras. It’s small, powerful, a little bit ugly, and it speaks backwards but makes perfect sense.

The only thing that doesn’t really make sense is, of course, how the camera is loaded. Instead of loading from the back of the camera, loading occurs from the bottom. This kind of construction lends itself well to the structural rigidity and light-tight properties of the camera, but it frankly makes loading a pain in the ass to do correctly, especially for the first few rolls.

First, the bottom plate comes off via a latch. But wait! The bottom of the camera tells us to “Stop! and Draw No Further”. The accompanying picture shows a canister with a film leader that is much longer than what we are used to today. The film will not spool up if the leader is any shorter, so the film leader must be trimmed to an appropriate length (10-11 cm) before loading. Then, pull out the film spool and insert the newly-trimmed film leader from the canister into the spool.  With all of that done, we can place the attached spool and canister into their slots, guiding the film into the small crevice between the shutter mechanism and the back of the camera.

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Previously I’d been advised by the internet that at this point in the process I should replace the bottom plate, take up the film slack with the rewind knob, and advance the shutter twice. If all was well, the rewind knob would turn in time with the advance knob. Except it didn’t. I tried for about 15 minutes to no avail and much frustration.

Almost as if on cue, the frail voice of Master Yoda echoed in my head, “You must unlearn what you have learned. Do or do not. There is no try.” With mustered courage I opened up the bottom plate again, reattached the film, and rewound it until I could visually confirm that the sprockets inside engaged the spool. I latched the bottom plate closed one last time, said a small prayer, and advanced the film. The rewind knob finally moved, indicating that I had in fact successfully loaded a screw mount Leica. This is the closest I’ve ever come to using the Force.

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Loading woes and dubious Star Wars references now out of my system, it was time to see how the Leica IIIc actually operated in the field.

The operation of any screw mount Leica is a divisive topic among photo geeks. Some praise it for its ability to slow down the photographic process while others deride it for requiring way too many steps to take a single goddamned picture. Both camps, incidentally, are correct. The Leica handsomely rewards the patient and cruelly punishes the impatient. Being a very impatient shooter, the first outing with the Leica IIIc was infuriating for me. If I didn’t adhere to a strict order of operations, the Leica came back to bite me with an underexposed frame, or worse, an entirely empty frame.

For the curious, the order of operations is thus: meter or guess at the exposure, set aperture and shutter speed, roughly frame in the viewfinder, switch to the rangefinder to focus, switch back to the viewfinder, roughly compensate for parallax, press the shutter, and wind onto the next frame. After the roll’s done, flick the old-timey rewind lever to R, and begin the unfortunate task of rewinding by knob instead of crank. And after that’s done, refer back to the loading paragraph to successfully (hopefully) load another roll.

In addition to loading film and shooting a photo, the process of mounting lenses also manages to be tedious. Every lens must be screwed in rather than simply snapped in via the slick bayonet mounts to which most shooters are accustomed. This older method is finicky compared to cameras and in its own way discourages the use of multiple focal lengths. This last effect could be a blessing in disguise for swap-happy shooters. Pick a lens and shoot it.

The viewfinder of the Leica IIIc doesn’t promote lens swapping either. Unlike Leica’s M series cameras, the viewfinder only supports the 50mm focal length. This means that shooters interested in other focal lengths for their Leica IIIc are obligated to obtain an external viewfinder to frame correctly. These viewfinders are widely available (and indeed, my Leica IIIc has been outfitted with a Leica VIOOH variable frame viewfinder) but it’s yet another inconvenience and expense that some shooters could certainly do without.

leica IIIc photos

Another annoyance in the already egregiously longhand photo process, the rangefinder on the Leica IIIc is not coupled with the viewfinder, meaning shooters have to switch back and forth between windows to acquire focus and compose. And to make things worse, the rangefinder mirror on many screw-mount Leicas are unhappily dim, the result of seventy-odd years of aging. This makes focusing even more difficult, slow, and tedious.

In comparison to more modern machines, and even compared with machines dating back as far as the 1950s, the screw mount Leica is tedious and time-consuming. Great cameras are often praised for their ability to get out of the way, but the Leica IIIc manages to do the exact opposite. It gets in the way at every single possible moment, sometimes even going as far as to distract from the actual photo itself. This would normally be grounds on which to sell the camera and buy something more suited to making photos and less suited to sitting on a shelf, but I haven’t done that. Quite the contrary. This is a camera that I plan to keep for as long as I live.

That’s because the Leica IIIc has taught me that speed isn’t everything. Though it’s true that the camera’s clumsiness gets in the way initially, once we’re past the teething period it transforms into a surprisingly intuitive machine. The separation of each and every possible function and the limitation to one built-in focal length seems criminally restrictive at first, but over time these restrictions seem to dissolve. What’s left is a photographic experience that is, after all its myriad complications, surprisingly pure.

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The entire beauty of the Leica IIIc lies in its ability to get to the heart of the matter. Because of its legendary build quality, the Leica takes us through each step of the photographic process with inimitable grace and style, making even simple functions like changing the shutter speed take on a greater significance. Every pull of the shutter speed dial, every twist of the aperture ring, every press of a button, and every wind of a knob feels definite, deliberate, and, yes, decisive. At its best, the Leica gently reminds us that photography once was and still is a miracle of humanity.

Of course, all of this flowery praise means jack if the images don’t look good. Luckily, the Leica’s M39 mount encompasses some of the greatest lenses around at every price point. At the higher end we get the famous lenses made by Leica themselves, in the midrange we get the fabulous Japanese M39 lenses from Canon, Nikon, and Minolta (under the name of Chiyoko), and at the low-end we get the eccentric and capable (though inconsistent) Russian lenses. The Leica IIIc caters to shooters from every economic strata, unlike its more ritzy descendants.

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But here’s the real kicker; the screw-mount Leica bodies are cheap (for a Leica). And the most attainable of the screw-mount Leicas is the Leica IIIc, the model made immediately after World War II. Their long production run make them plentiful and undervalued in comparison to other Leica screwmount cameras. My review camera was only $200, chump change compared to the suitcases of money required to purchase a Leica M.

Yes, the price is higher than many other 35mm cameras, and it may indeed seem too high for what is even by vintage standards an archaic, outdated camera. But when we consider that the IIIc is part of a range of Leicas that make up the most historically significant cameras ever made, the cost quickly becomes both reasonable, and a moot point. We’re paying for history, class, and sophistication. Combine these superlatives with the camera’s unique shooting style, its impeccable build quality, and its undeniable street cred, and the IIIc becomes nearly irresistible. Hey, it’s a Leica. What more can we say?

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Josh Solomon

Josh Solomon is a freelance writer and touring bassist living in Los Angeles. He has an affinity for all things analog. When not onstage, you can find him roaming around Southern California shooting film and humming a tune.

All stories by:Josh Solomon
29 comments
  • Merlin Marquardt May 30, 2016 at 10:15 pm

    Wonderful review article.

    • Thanks so much!

    • Regarding film loading I recommend, once the film is properly trimmed and clipped to the take up spool, you insert it carefully in the camera body and make sure it is properly seated. Then back tension the film so the sprocket hole has the film advance roller sprocket in the long strip. Then backwind to add a bit more tension and put on and lock the bottom plate. Trip the shutter if cocked then carefully wind slowly to see if the take up knob turns indicating film is advancing.

  • The one and only Leica i own and for the same reasons, it was much cheaper to get hold of one. Its fiddly to use and a nightmare when you you get it wrong but so rewarding when you don’t.

  • Just remember that the shutter speed can only be adjusted when the shutter is already cocked. If you do it when the shutter has fired you’ll put it out of kilter, and could even damage it.

  • Ed Worthington June 5, 2016 at 3:17 pm

    Just out of interest is there any particular lens you guy’s would recomend for the iiic? I have a 50mm Industar that came with it when I bought the camera which, being a Soviet lens, is very hit and miss so looking to replace it with another 50mm.

    • Josh can probably chime in here with some good information. In my experience all of the Leica lenses I’ve used that are from the era of the IIIc have been pretty spongey and unimpressive. I’m sure there are some expensive lenses that work fantastically, but I was not willing to spend big bucks when I had the old Leica in my hands. So I guess this reply is pretty lacking in actual information… 😉

      Josh! Get in here!

    • Reporting for duty! The Industar 61 L/D 50/2.8 is a hell of a lens for a super low amount of cash. I think I got mine for about $30 or thereabouts? It has that ability to “draw” an image instead of simply recording detail. As always, you’re playing Russian Roulette with those lenses so make sure you get a good one. Additionally, the Japanese LTM lenses are no joke (and more consistent), and I still wonder why they aren’t used more frequently by Leica users. The Nikkor 50/2 and Canon 50/1.4 go for around $200 as well as the one I currently use, the Chiyoko Super Rokkor 50/2. They’re wonderful alternatives to the Summicron, Summilux, and Summitar respectively. Hope this helps!

    • Ed Worthington June 7, 2016 at 1:07 pm

      Thanks very much for the info’s guy’s, I was leaning towards looking into the Japanese LTM’s more than the Russian one’s so I’ll keep an eye out for what I can find on ebay.

    • Most people will just use the 5cm 3.5 Elmar but I feel something faster can be gotten for the same money. For 50mm I use a 5cm f2 Summitar (aprox $200-$300), a great forerunner of the Summicron but cheaper and collapsible. I sometimes use my 5cm 1.5 Summarit (aprox $500) which is more reserved for my M6 and is a bit front heavy on the IIIc. This is a very dreamy or horribly soft lens wide open, depending on your perspective but it has a lot of character and it probably sharper than a ‘Cron stopped down if you can believe it. Out of focus points of light render in a unique crescent shape. I also sometimes us a 9cm Elmar which fits nicely on the IIIc and is very cheap ($100-$200) and really performs. In fact, stopped down, in lighting that doesn’t make the Elmar’s thin coating cranky, it’s difficult to see the difference between the cheap little 1930’s Elmar and my pre-ASPH 90mm Summicron!

  • There is a much easier way to load these Leicas: remove the lens, open the shutter using T, and then you can align the film easier:

    https://www.cameraquest.com/ltmcam.htm

  • For noting the historical relevance, it would have been nice to get your history right.

    This whole post screams insecurities. No one who matters, no pro of any level, cares what camera you use to get your best result and create the image you want. If a Mamiya does that for you, great, a Nikon? Just as great, a Canon? Well…. Not as great but still good!

    Shooting Leica is something for a certain style of shooter these days, and like any pro end camera it’s not as cheap as a non pro end camera. But you can get a M3 outfit for the same price as a Nikon outfit of the same value, Leica isn’t any more pricey than Nikon or Canon. The Rx1 from Sony is barely cheaper than the Leica Q and it’s not nearly as spec’d out! The D5 is in the same price range as the M240P! If I bought a Nikon D5 and a 35mm lens, I’d only be saving around $500-1000 than if I bought the better made and much better serviced Leica M240P and =35mm lens.

    No matter what brand you look at, quality = cash. Is you want the X-Pro two and 50mm lens, you’ll spend more than any other APSC format option on the market, but you’ll get better results. When speaking purely about film, the same is true. Just the other day I was debating between a M6 or a Nikon F6 and I saved about $50 buying the M6.

    And between you and me, having owned and worked with both, the M6 is a better camera!

    My point is, don’t worry about what you have in your bag, yeah, Leica’s are damn amazing. But so is a black paint FE2. And both have created photographs that have been seen the world over and made careers.

    Being proud of what’s in your bag is on you, not Leica and not Leica photographers. I was proud of my Nikon EM decades before I ever even saw a Leica in real life, and I was earning my living with the EM just like I would later with a M. Shoot better photographs more often, and worry about your Leica envoy less.

    • James – Founder/Editor September 25, 2016 at 1:50 am

      Hey Jack, Sounds like you’ve been around. Josh wrote this piece so I can’t really comment with authority, but what you call insecurities might just be the way young people feel when they’re really starting to dive into this hobby. There’s no denying that there’s immense pressure to have “the best” gear. And there’s also no denying that there’s a lot of snark and elitism in this hobby (which is one of the reasons I started this website, in fact).

      I can say that when I started shooting more seriously there was absolutely a feeling that if I wasn’t shooting a Leica, Nikon, or Hasselblad then I was shooting junk. A pro photographer literally laughed at me when I told him my favorite camera was a Minolta. No joke.

      So while you are certainly correct with much of what you said, just try to remember that there are a lot of people who don’t see things as clearly as you. I think this article speaks more to them than anyone else.

      Just my two cents, and thank you for checking out the site. I’d love to hear more of your perspective on our other posts. Happy shooting, my friend.

  • James Gifford-Mead March 10, 2017 at 7:08 am

    Great review, i have a Leica M6 but always have the itch to buy something else Leica related…So might blow my next pay day cheque on one of these!

  • Ryan O’Connell July 30, 2017 at 10:02 pm

    Any reason you like this camera but don’t like other Leica Ms?

  • Jack makes good points. The screw-mount Leicas are very practical shooters. I bought my 111 (1935) in 1985 and have put hundreds of films through it. I like the 3.5cm f3.5 Summaron lens, set to Hyperfocal distance for street photography. I have developed a technique : I keep the camera in my coat pocket, wound on, set. Walking along, I see my shot, when we get to 15 feet (length of a Rover 75 or a Jaguar) out comes the camera, up to the eye and click. Then back in my pocket in one simple, fluid movement. And then I walk on. Never any problems with police, security guards, concerned members of the public (“he might be taking photos for terrorists”)

  • Barnack had asthma, not a bad back. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oskar_Barnack

  • Nice post!!! I’ve been wanting a Leica as well, just like everyone else. And yeah, its probably because of the hype, and it being shoved down my throat by my favorite shooters on IG. I ran into the Leica iiic after looking at some Russian camera’s. I ended up going with a Zorki 4 with a Jupiter 8 lens. I haven’t received it just yet, but alot of the same functions are similar to the iiic. From my understanding it was the Russians version of the iiic. Regardless, it will be my first RF, and I’m stoked to have it in my bag. I don’t really care that its not a Leica… I’m just excited to shoot with an RF, and one that forces me to really think about exposure. Up until now I’ve depended on a Light meter in my Pentax K1000. But after using m Mamiya C330 with no light meter and only using Sunny 16, I’m confident I’ll be able to not only use the Z4, but also learn from it. Again, thanks for this post. I sometimes forget that you don’t NEED a Leica to shoot great images…

  • The lever next to the rangefinder focused the rf patch for near to far subjects. It is not a diopter per se.

  • Got hit with GAS and the result was a Leica IIIc with 50 mm Elmar 3.5 lens. Given the numerous buttons and dials and idiosyncratic range/viewfinder I wonder how the star photographers captured the “decisive moment” in their day. Not a camera for people in a rush, more suitable for the patient landscape photographer with a tripod. But it feels good in the hand and in order to shoot I’ll have to replace the beam splitter since the rangefinder spot is as faint as a morning star. Still amazed that it clicks after 70 years!!

  • I had seen my dad’s photo equipment around the house for years. When I got to high school, I decided to see what I could do with it (a Kansas farm kid in 1969 had lots of time on their hands.) Dad had an enlarger, tanks, trays and … a Leica iiiC. I had no clue about Leica, but dad seemed to think it was better than Kodak. Decades before the Internet, you could only do research by going to the library, or hanging out at the photo store and talk to other photographers. It took me years to appreciate my good fortune in having the iiiC available to me. It was a joy to work with. As Josh mentioned, the iiiC is compact. With a Summitar f/2 50 mm collapsible lens, and the double-knit polyester pants of the 70’s, it comfortably fit in my front pants pocket. When I became a photographer for the student newspaper/yearbook this was a tremendous quality. I could have my iiiC available and inconspicuous practically all day long. On the other hand, when you walk into a room with an SLR on a neck strap, the possibility of taking candid photos vanishes. In addition, the iiiC is very quiet. I could be in the library and take candid shots of other students from 6 feet away and never be noticed. I did two other things to help me remain inconspicuous: 1) I became adept at estimating distances so I didn’t have to bring the camera up to my face and 2) I used my light meter to create a map of the light levels in most parts of the school and memorized it. Final topic: Quality. A teacher asked me to do a portrait shoot. I did my own B&W developing/printing, but for a 16×20 color portrait, I needed to find a professional-level developer/printer. When I was calling possible vendors, I soon discovered that many of them did not consider 35mm to be suitable for professional work. Only one of them asked about my equipment. When I said Leica iiiC w/ Summitar f/2, he said “send us the film”.Bottom line: compact, quiet, top-notch images,and build quality/durability – we’re still speaking very respectfully of a product made at least 60 years ago.

  • Excellent review. Humble, elegant prose. Elegiac but keeping perspective.

  • Excellent article. The Leica IIIC is as relevant, today (on the eve of 2020) as it was when produced. The only limitation is the photographer.

  • hello and thank you for youir article , I bought one in Old Delhi 30 years ago, working perfect , maybe a little slow in the lowest speeds, the lens is a 50/f:2, but unluckily is has become ( it was already ,) yellowish , any way you know to give new life to this great piece of glass ? Greetings from Julio.

  • Just got my IIIc this year and it (and my Canon clone) are my favorite cameras. I don’t even want to shoot with anything else for my day to day photography. Loading the standard way is easy if you are patient.
    I use the Industar 22, 26 and 61 and keep one of the cameras loaded with IR sensitive film and usually a 720nm filter. The other is my color camera. I like the Canon IV as well as the Leica III. They are almost alike, each with their own pluses.

  • I am a retired photojournalist who, out of editorial necessity, spent decades shooting with ever-more-sophisticated and technically capable digital machines. The last camera I employed professionally was a mammoth Nikon D4 (slap even a mild telephoto on that and you’ve got a back breaking but effective personal weapon). It, barely nine years old and already two generations obsolete (which tells you all you need to know about digital pro gear), sits idle in my old camera bag now. I use it only to shoot product portraits for my occasional eBay seller ventures.

    After eschewing picture taking altogether for a couple of years after retirement, I ran across my old film Leicas tucked away in a closet. Decades ago, I had stored away an M2 and a IIIf. (A IIIf is essentially Josh’s IIIc with flash sync and — in the case of mine — a self-timer). At first, I simply played with the pair, enjoying immensely — as Josh noted — the precision feel of the controls. Eventually, I ordered a few rolls of black and white film from B&H Photo up the road in NYC from my DC area home, loaded up a roll each in the M and Barnack (screw mount) bodies and set off to re-discover the simple joys of basic photography — y’know, finding nice subjects, methodically composing and creating images. As time passed, I found myself favoring the IIIf. Its size, shape and weight felt just right. The M2 by comparison began to seem just a bit clumsy and oversized (a curious observation considering its relative diminutive stature when compared with the Nikon and Canon behemoths I’d been hauling around for decades prior).

    I now use the IIIf exclusively for recreational shooting. Yes, the film loading can be a little bit awkward but, with pre-trimmed leaders and practice, can be accomplished in very little more time than with a traditional flip-back film camera body. As for the split rangefinder/viewfinder arrangement; I don’t mind that at all. I mean, how long does it take to scoot your eye over a quarter inch to compose / focus / view, anyway? Plus, the beautifully magnified image in the rangefinder window is absolutely wonderful for really precise focusing. No, I can’t fire off a dozen auto-focused and auto-exposed images per second of a Congressman, Senator, President or speeding F1 race car anymore, but — you now what? — I don’t care. If the need for that ever arises again, I suppose I could haul the big old Nikon out of its disused bag, but I just don’t see that happening. I’m perfectly content and relaxed back in the lovely, analog photography world I grew up in.

    Oh — a piece of unsolicited advice: if you are seduced by the arguments in favor of an old screw mount Leica (or Leica clone), make sure it’s been serviced in the not-too-distant past. Given the superb build quality of these old instruments, a thorough CLA with, if needed, shutter curtain replacement, rangefinder/viewfinder cleaning and split beam mirror replacement (none as daunting as they sound) will yield a shooter that will work as-new and stay that way for a very, very long time. A quick online search will reveal the qualified and expert sources of such services.

  • That is a very well-written article. I’m entering this phase myself, after having shot almost all Japanese cameras since the late 80s.

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Josh Solomon

Josh Solomon is a freelance writer and touring bassist living in Los Angeles. He has an affinity for all things analog. When not onstage, you can find him roaming around Southern California shooting film and humming a tune.

All stories by:Josh Solomon